[morini]

The RBR young boys program isn't delivering like it used to.

Yup, I agree with that.

Sometimes there is no substitute for experience and the best drivers tend to get that from working their way up though the junior formulae. A mix of one experienced driver and one young blazer is the way most teams try to play it. Having said that Max might be young but he is now also very experienced in F1 terms, mostly because he wasn't made to learn his trade in lower categories and gain valid experience outside F1. That might turn out to be a disadvantage because (for me) he is no team leader. Yet (thought I should add a "yet" there), like Papa said in an earlier post Max will develop all of that but from where I am sitting he isn't there yet.

[edit]
Horner was pleased with Alex' comeback though and I guess it's his opinion which counts most at the end of the day.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/albon...r/4848887/

[Jody Barton]

No question Max isn't the finished product. Arguably with 5 seasons at the Sharpe end of the sport he absolutely should be by now, but I guess the lack of teeth cutting in junior formula won't have helped his progression in other areas. On the technical side of things both Russell and Leclerc sound more clued in than Max at times. That actually shocks me given the team he's at. I think hunk he needs that epihany moment like Lewis had at McLaren that it's on him to learn how to speak engineerlish.

It's nice to see Horner actually sticking up for Albon, because he didn't do that nearly enough for either Kvyat or Gasly. He kinda hung both drivers out to dry, but if you think Horner is the big boss man at RBR I'll have whatever you're smoking. lol. It's the Helmut who has the final say in that team, and it is he who Alex has to impress. I'm rooting for Albon, I really honestly truly am, although I guess it might not seem like it, I just hope he can string a few decent weekends together.

[Antilochos]

I, different than most others here, don't dislike Horner. But, I don't believe every word he says. He has the team agenda to play in media and he can't criticise his own driver publicly.
When there is no media, I am quite sure they talk different about Albon and with Albon. Getting a new engineer could be his last change to show improvement. Then all arguments are gone (Horner saying the kid needs a boring weekend; what kind of driver needs a boring weekend?).

And therefor I think one of the most interesting questions now is; who will get that second seat if Albon does not improve rapidly (and I don't see that happening)?
Not only because that driver will be fighting at the top, but also for the team and for Verstappen. Like you guys said, it is very true that every driver needs help on the track from his teammate from time to time. Verstappen is out there alone for the second year now. Then drivers, especially a young kid like Verstappen who is still developing himself, needs to be pushed and needs a teammate like Ricciardo to improve themselves.
Then you get the car development. I think, different from Morini, that Verstappen is pretty good at this. Not only his team says this, but even his old teammate Ricciardo called Verstappen's knowledge of the car on "nerd-level" since he was naming and working on parts Ricciardo didn't even knew they excised (no, not the conspiracy crap now). But, and it is a big but, Albon is truly crap at engineering and if a team can only fall back on input from one driver, they only have 50% of the input compared to other teams. And no reference to question the Verstappen input (no matter how good or bad you are, we all get better results when working with other views). That is a problem. Could be part of Albon his problem as well; since he is only copying Verstappen his settings, he gets a car that is suited for Verstappen his drivingstyle, not his own. That will not help I am sure.

So back again; who will get that seat if Albon is out?
Perez still has the best hand, but only if Vettel moves to the pink team.
Vettel return? No, I don't think that will happen (but than again, Alonso is coming back to Renault and who saw that coming).
Hulkenberg, interesting. He has lots of experience, is a decent driver, good teamplayer and friendly with Verstappen. I thought he was out, but I can't count him out.
Russell is Mercedes, a bigger change of Russell becoming Verstappen's teammate at Mercedes when Hamilton leaves the sport (apparently not for another three years).
Gasly had his change and personally, he does not bring enough.
Kvyat, no change.
Bottas, not a first choice but if they kick him out of Mercedes, it is a safe choice (until something better comes along).
No talk about Norris. I know he is fine at McLaren, but what if?
And talking about Mercedes; how about Vandoorne? I always thought he is a good driver. What if Red Bull snatch him away from their big rivals?

[Jody Barton]

I think the realistic options for the Red Bull drive have been mentioned:

Perez: I've been championing this idea for quite a while now. I actually think having him alongside Max might be good for Max. Thing is I'm not sure he'd been seen as "good enough" for Red Bull.

Vettel: The guy knows cars, and is arguably one of the most knowledgeable drivers on the grid when it comes to the technical stuff. Certainly has the pedigree, but he pissed off the Helmut when he left.

Hulkenberg: I suggested him for RBR last season, he's knowledgeable, has plenty of experience and wouldn't rock the boat too much, would almost certainly be a more consistent point scorer than the current crop of Red Bull youngsters as well... same problem as Perez, us he blockbuster enough?

Bottas: Slim chance of it happening, but arguably the best option for RBR if they could poach him. He is quick over one lap, would push Max and isn't a slouch when it comes to technical development. Problem, getting him to leave the best F1 team the sport has ever known, but I am starting to think Bottas needs a change of scenery.

So who do I think RBR will pick for 2021? Gasly.

[morini]

Mark Hughes second guessing pirelli investigation

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/artic...Z81Yq.html

Sounds plausible though.

[Antilochos]

I think the realistic options for the Red Bull drive have been mentioned:

Perez: I've been championing this idea for quite a while now. I actually think having him alongside Max might be good for Max. Thing is I'm not sure he'd been seen as "good enough" for Red Bull.

Vettel: The guy knows cars, and is arguably one of the most knowledgeable drivers on the grid when it comes to the technical stuff. Certainly has the pedigree, but he pissed off the Helmut when he left.

Hulkenberg: I suggested him for RBR last season, he's knowledgeable, has plenty of experience and wouldn't rock the boat too much, would almost certainly be a more consistent point scorer than the current crop of Red Bull youngsters as well... same problem as Perez, us he blockbuster enough?

Bottas: Slim chance of it happening, but arguably the best option for RBR if they could poach him. He is quick over one lap, would push Max and isn't a slouch when it comes to technical development. Problem, getting him to leave the best F1 team the sport has ever known, but I am starting to think Bottas needs a change of scenery.

So who do I think RBR will pick for 2021? Gasly.

You are right with everything you said, so I hope the last thing is wrong. Gasly would not help the team or Verstappen getting were they need to go.

[morini]

I, different than most others here, don't dislike Horner.

I think it's mostly just me actually who despises Horner and Marko. Because of the way they operate and the way they interact with the press. They also overhype Max, but that is understandable.

Then you get the car development. I think, different from Morini, that Verstappen is pretty good at this. Not only his team says this, but even his old teammate Ricciardo called Verstappen's knowledge of the car on "nerd-level" since he was naming and working on parts Ricciardo didn't even knew they excised (no, not the conspiracy crap now). But, and it is a big but, Albon is truly crap at engineering and if a team can only fall back on input from one driver, they only have 50% of the input compared to other teams. And no reference to question the Verstappen input (no matter how good or bad you are, we all get better results when working with other views). That is a problem. Could be part of Albon his problem as well; since he is only copying Verstappen his settings, he gets a car that is suited for Verstappen his drivingstyle, not his own. That will not help I am sure.

Yes, we definitely have a difference of opinion on this one. I think Max (like Lewis) can get the best out of any car that is under him, but this years RBR would be a lot closer to the Mercedes if he was better at articulating to his engineers what areas need improving and what he needs from the car. I am sure Newey hasn't delivered a complete dog and Max has some responsibility to make the car quicker (not just by driving, by making the car more capable). Drivers can learn this ability from teammates and like anything in life some are a lot better at it than others. Of course Red Bull are going to say Max is "great" with technical feedback, they can't afford to say different. For me that doesn't align with what I'm seeing on track. The fact is that car has some problems and Max doesn't seem like the guy to direct the engineers down the right path to make it better.

That's what it looks like to me anyway.

So back again; who will get that seat if Albon is out?
Perez still has the best hand, but only if Vettel moves to the pink team.
Vettel return? No, I don't think that will happen (but than again, Alonso is coming back to Renault and who saw that coming).
Hulkenberg, interesting. He has lots of experience, is a decent driver, good teamplayer and friendly with Verstappen. I thought he was out, but I can't count him out.
Russell is Mercedes, a bigger change of Russell becoming Verstappen's teammate at Mercedes when Hamilton leaves the sport (apparently not for another three years).
Gasly had his change and personally, he does not bring enough.
Kvyat, no change.
Bottas, not a first choice but if they kick him out of Mercedes, it is a safe choice (until something better comes along).
No talk about Norris. I know he is fine at McLaren, but what if?
And talking about Mercedes; how about Vandoorne? I always thought he is a good driver. What if Red Bull snatch him away from their big rivals?

Vettel would be the best fit IMO. I don't disagree that Marko would never let it happen but I am 100% convinced the car would become better with someone like vettel helping develop it.

Don't see any of the other options happening with the possible exception of Checo. Like I already said, Ricciardo was a big loss to them and letting him go is looking like a big mistake.

[morini]

Only three tyres but still faster than a Ferrari down hangar straight

[Antilochos]

Vettel would be the best fit IMO. I don't disagree that Marko would never let it happen but I am 100% convinced the car would become better with someone like vettel helping develop it.

If you blame Verstappen for not bringing the current Red Bull closer to Mercedes, how would that logic follow with Vettel and the current Ferrari?

Mercedes team is something special these last years. After Mercedes Red Bull is second team. Even last year Red Bull was better than Ferrari (since the red team cheated).

[morini]

If you blame Verstappen for not bringing the current Red Bull closer to Mercedes, how would that logic follow with Vettel and the current Ferrari?

I don't blame Verstappen in entirety, but you can't argue this years RBR is slower in terms of one lap pace than last years car. Vettel would be a good fit because he's been in that team before, he knows the personnel already and has a good relationship with Newey. It didn't work for Vettel at Ferrari (clearly), but it is feasible that is because he couldn't get what he wanted / needed out of their engineering department. He does have a reputation of being very meticulous, technically capable and hard working. There are no guarantees of course, but I'd put money on him being able to move the RBR car forward if he was in the other seat.

As I said, it would also benefit Max and I believe Max would be very open to working with Vettel. He certainly wouldn't be threatened by him on the track.