[morini]

There's rumblings the Helmut has already decided Albon's fate. If true I feel for him, but he's been given longer than Gasly already, and quite frankly I think he's done worse. I wonder if he's demoted who they'll give the drive to. However, I'll be stunned if Alex is in the Red Bull for 2021.

You think Alex will get a drive for Torro Tauri? Or is it the boot?

Ted Kravitz thought he drove well today, by the way. I almost spat my gin out when he said that.

[Antilochos]

Don't know where Albon will go to, but he will not be in a Red Bull next year.

A more interesting question will be; who gets his seat? I don't see Kvyat or Gasly getting another change. Gasly is doing good, but he still is not good enough.
Personally I would love to see Russell in that car, but I just don't know how that works with his Mercedes connection.
You know, a wild thought here; what if Vettel pushes Perez out Racing Point and the latter moves to Red Bull? He is good driver, teamplayer, lots of experience and brings money. Could work.

[NeilP]

Grosjean gets away with "warning" and no licence points following black and white flag at Silverstone.

When i look at people like Hulk not getting a drive, i am amazed that some of the drivers on the track are still there.

Grosjean is one of these who is past his best (alongside several others) but in his case i think he is a positive danger to other drivers despite him being one of the drivers representatives.

I am still shocked not only did they keep Grosjean but Magnussen also. Hulkenberg should be in F1 he is a very high quality driver. That said at 32 and with no Podiums it may be all over for him. Grosjean should have a grid penalty. This is what bothers me sometimes about F1. The inconsistency. You mean to tell me Russell not backing off enough (It is a joke of a rule anyway) was more dangerous than Grosjeans performance in that race today not just once but twice!  Ridiculous!

---

Don't know where Albon will go to, but he will not be in a Red Bull next year.

A more interesting question will be; who gets his seat? I don't see Kvyat or Gasly getting another change. Gasly is doing good, but he still is not good enough.
Personally I would love to see Russell in that car, but I just don't know how that works with his Mercedes connection.
You know, a wild thought here; what if Vettel pushes Perez out Racing Point and the latter moves to Red Bull? He is good driver, teamplayer, lots of experience and brings money. Could work.

I think Red Bull are paying the price for promoting drivers too fast. I am a fan of Albon and yes last few races he has been disappointing but lets not forget he has had a lot of bad luck on the way. As for his time in Red Bulls top team I think overall much better than Gasly, sure Gasly had a 4th placed finish and Albon only a 5th but that is down to bad luck in some ways. Hard to see Kyvat even being with either Red Bull team next season. In fact I think it is only the lack of a suitable young driver coming through he is with Alpha Tauri this year. Gasly is interesting you would think he has a chance of going back up to the senior team otherwise what would be the point of giving him a second chance but it is far from certain. Again driver availability could have been a big part of his situation especially as it was possible Verstappen could have moved on.  I also think Red Bull fully expected to be able to keep Ricciardo at the top team albeit two seasons back.

I would be shocked if Mercedes let Russell join Red Bull. I think there is a very good chance he will be a Mercedes works driver sooner rather than later.  Would Red Bull consider Bottas as a short term solution?  I dont think Red Bull would look to Perez he is a pain in the ass and they sure do not need his money.

You know expecting another Red Bull driver to match with Verstappen is an unreasonable expectation. He is quite rightly touted by all as a future Champion and by some he is rated as the best driver in F1 (I am not one of those people!!!). That kind of skill is rare indeed to find yet alone in the same team.

Time will tell all.

[Jody Barton]

Morini, Ted Kravitz has had a hard on for Albon ever since that interview with his mom, when he bumped into them in the paddock and she was flirting with him about his shorts... she was taking the piss, but still, bless Ted he's been bigging Albon up ever since. So let's look at his race weekend, he was crap on Saturday and got out qualified by Gasly and was literally a few hundredths from qualifying 14th. So he was shyte on Saturday, and did not drive well. So onto Sunday. Piss poor start, slipped further back, cut two corners to make up places and then drove into Magnusson in a far worse move than either of Hamilton's on him. This essentially put him to the back of the grid. Where he literally made no fecking progress, and was lucky the second safety car bunched the field up. He only scored points because Sainz and Bottas had problems, and he made hard work of over taking way to many drivers while on new mediums when they were on old hards. No. He had a terrible Sunday as well.

On to where he goes if he is dropped? Well Gasly is bossing Kvyat right now, and I think the Russians second F1 career is coming swiftly to an end. Shame, but he's not as quick as Gasly and is still error prone (although Sundays crash was a tyre failure). I would assume Red Bull will bomb him back to Alpha Rosso or whatever crap name they'll have next year, maybe to see who thrives out of Gasly and Albon. I think they need to put experience in the second RBR car, I've made the case for Perez for months now, and last season floated the idea of Hulk, or a cheeky bid for Bottas. Max needs support. Every driver does, and Albon and Gasly have shown they aren't ready to do that. Will Red Bull break with their young boy fetish though? Only time will tell, but I think Albon's days are numbered.

NeilP, what do you mean by bad luck? His coming together with Lewis in Brazil and Austria? Let's analyse those incidents further. Both times prior to late safety cars he was more looking in his rear view mirrors than eying a podium, so he lucked into podium chances and didn't take them. Let's analyse why. In Brazil he did leave the door open and I still maintain you do that against a top driver and they'll go for it, Lewis was fully alongside when contact was made. Poor driving from both? Maybe, but Albon left himself open, literally. In Austria he was over eager, and had way more space on his outside, poor judgement again, I still think Lewis' penalty on review for both incidents were harsh, there was plenty of space for Albon in Austria, and in Brazil it was Albon who left the door open and then shut it. You see, I think he was lucky to get those opportunities in the first place, and his poor judgement then squandered those opportunities.

[morini]

Morini, Ted Kravitz has had a hard on for Albon ever since that interview with his mom, when he bumped into them in the paddock and she was flirting with him about his shorts... she was taking the piss, but still, bless Ted he's been bigging Albon up ever since. So let's look at his race weekend, he was crap on Saturday and got out qualified by Gasly and was literally a few hundredths from qualifying 14th. So he was shyte on Saturday, and did not drive well. So onto Sunday. Piss poor start, slipped further back, cut two corners to make up places and then drove into Magnusson in a far worse move than either of Hamilton's on him. This essentially put him to the back of the grid. Where he literally made no fecking progress, and was lucky the second safety car bunched the field up. He only scored points because Sainz and Bottas had problems, and he made hard work of over taking way to many drivers while on new mediums when they were on old hards. No. He had a terrible Sunday as well.

I thought Alex had an awful weekend too, I won't put up any arguments otherwise. I do think the car is unpredictable though and Max is better able to manage it. George Russell thinks Alex Albon is better than his results are showing, I know there is some camaraderie there, but I'll take some credence in that as IMO Alex has shown some glimpses of potential.

NeilP, what do you mean by bad luck? His coming together with Lewis in Brazil and Austria? Let's analyse those incidents further. Both times prior to late safety cars he was more looking in his rear view mirrors than eying a podium, so he lucked into podium chances and didn't take them. Let's analyse why. In Brazil he did leave the door open and I still maintain you do that against a top driver and they'll go for it, Lewis was fully alongside when contact was made. Poor driving from both? Maybe, but Albon left himself open, literally. In Austria he was over eager, and had way more space on his outside, poor judgement again, I still think Lewis' penalty on review for both incidents were harsh, there was plenty of space for Albon in Austria, and in Brazil it was Albon who left the door open and then shut it. You see, I think he was lucky to get those opportunities in the first place, and his poor judgement then squandered those opportunities.

Agree completely about Austria. A more experienced driver would have made the move stick without any contact. As you say he had tons of room on the outside and chose not to use it. Brazil was clumsy by Lewis and the penalty was justified IMO. I felt sorry for Alex in Brazil, not so much in Austria. LH apologise for Brazil but didn't for Austria.

It's one of the things which annoys me most about RBR actually. If ever they have a sniff of a win (because of pure luck) Horner talks like they had the performance to win all along and were robbed! He criticised Lewis for taking away Alex' opportunity to win in Austria. The fact is Alex would not have been on the same lap if it were not for safety cars! Then, when he got the opportunity he fucked it up himself.

[Jody Barton]

Morini, I actually sorta agree over Brazil, but the contact was at the apex and would have been wheel to wheel had Lewis not slamed on the breaks, as it was it was very nearly wheel to wheel, the apex wasn't Alex's to take at that point, but Lewis took an unnecessary risk. Either way, were it not for the safety car Alex wouldn't have even been in with a shout of a podium finish in my opinion, and so that's what you need to judge that incident on. As to the glimpses he's shown, so too did Gasly, who did pull out some belters in over taking and laps. In terms of Delta gaps to Max, Gasly was closer to him, and we all thought Gasly being bombed out mid-season was fair / justified. Given how screwed up this year is, I hope they give Alex until the end of the season, but if he doesn't improve rapidly can any of us hand on heart say he deserves that drive?

[morini]

I hope they give Alex until the end of the season, but if he doesn't improve rapidly can any of us hand on heart say he deserves that drive?

At this point in time, no, I would say he doesn't deserve the drive. He does deserve some support in getting the car in a more predictable place. Both drivers are complaining about the same things, so I'm pretty sure that car is not right. However, Max can get a lot more out of it for two reasons, 1. he's been in the car for so long and it is built around his style and 2. he is ultimately a better driver. The enormous gap is more about 1 than 2 though.

[Jody Barton]

But Morini, I'd say that point 2 is more of a factor in getting point 1 right. Alex's job is to go and find a way to drive round problems and to set the car up right. When Gasly's average delta deficit was 0.45 to Max everyone was crucifying him... Well... since he's joined RBR Alex's deficit is 0.6. Gasly had a better average points haul as well. Alex is not doing his job, and making excuses doesn't cut it at the pointy end of this sport.

[morini]

But Morini, I'd say that point 2 is more of a factor in getting point 1 right. Alex's job is to go and find a way to drive round problems and to set the car up right. When Gasly's average delta deficit was 0.45 to Max everyone was crucifying him... Well... since he's joined RBR Alex's deficit is 0.6. Gasly had a better average points haul as well. Alex is not doing his job, and making excuses doesn't cut it at the pointy end of this sport.

Jody. Max has been in that car for 5 seasons and he now drives the engineering direction alone (possibly quite poorly). Whoever is in seat 2 needs to help improve the car as that would benefit Max as well. Perhaps the Rennie appointment will help Alex get that car behaving better and he can do more with it? I hope Rennie and Albon get a fair chance to try to turn it around. Don't get me wrong, Max is clearly better but he is a tone more experienced in F1, lot more familiar with the car (also more adept at driving around the difficulties) and even he is complaining about its behavior (and spinning it too).

The gap between Max and Alex isn't all about driver disparity IMO, that is all I am trying to say. But, I've already said RBR would benefit from somebody more experienced to put that car in a better place development wise. Nothing I am seeing is convincing me Max is doing a good job of that. 

It looks to me like RBR lost more than a good driver when they let Ricciardo go to Renault. I just think they would have better engineering direction with someone like him in the other seat.

[Jody Barton]

So let's say I accept some of the issues facing Alex is the car, and not all down to his ability and what's going on between his ears, what proportion of the 0.6 deficit (sometimes on softer tyres) is down to the car. Max whinged about his car all last year too, so what proportion of Gasly's gap was due to a twitchy car? I'm not disagreeing with you over the car being a bit unpredictable, but that excuse won't cut it for much longer.

For the record I also agree over them losing Ricciardo, but also Sainz. We may have forgotten, but Sainz out qualified Max, and but for an unfortunate DNF would have been ahead of him in the WDC at the point of his promotion to RBR. The McLaren technical team speak very highly of Carlos. Either way, RBR have a problem filling that second seat don't they? Because right now Albon isn't doing a job, Gasly didn't do a job and Kvyat crashed more than he finished and is being soundly beaten by Gasly who, didn't do a job. The RBR young boys program isn't delivering like it used to.