[morini]

People probably thought the same about full-face helmets in the 60s - maybe one or two of our members remember it first-hand?? 

I hope that wasn't aimed at me!

[morini]

a lot of nonsense gets talked about how it wouldn't have saved Henry Surtees or Justin Wilson or Jules Bianchi or Dan Wheldon but there are good reasons to think it would or could, it's just wishing really to pretend it's not there for a reason.  Think how close Schumi was to getting a front wing in his face in Abu Dhabi and there've been some other near misses too.

I do see your point, but I don't agree with you on this one. F1 has always been an open wheel / open cockpit formula. F1 is so much safer than it was decades ago and even though I dislike SJS (for no other reason than he's a bigoted idiot), he was a major factor the in improved safety we have now. F1 will never be 100% safe and I believe the drivers wouldn't have it any other way. It is safe enough.

The flip flop is a step too far, if you take that argument to its logical conclusion we will end up watching touring cars Mk2. Plus, there are still major concerns with the halo obstructing access, particularly in an overturned car.

[Purple-banana]

Plus, there are still major concerns with the halo obstructing access, particularly in an overturned car.

This is the concession I'll openly make with my previous point that if it improves safety then I am pro-Halo.

Of course the moment it does impede a driver evacuating a car, you can guarantee they'll be outlawed on the spot. Let's just hope it doesn't take a driver getting hurt or worse before that conclusion is made - if indeed it's needed.

[Chloe17b]

I do see your point, but I don't agree with you on this one. F1 has always been an open wheel / open cockpit formula. F1 is so much safer than it was decades ago and even though I dislike SJS (for no other reason than he's a bigoted idiot), he was a major factor the in improved safety we have now. F1 will never be 100% safe and I believe the drivers wouldn't have it any other way. It is safe enough.

The flip flop is a step too far, if you take that argument to its logical conclusion we will end up watching touring cars Mk2. Plus, there are still major concerns with the halo obstructing access, particularly in an overturned car.

Cool, I'm generally up for a debate  

is it valid to argue "f1 has always been" X?  there probably are some things that it has to be, like the fastest and most expensive, but most other things change don't they?  Helmets, visors, have a similar kind of effect to Halo but we accept them now, and side headrests that come so high.  

i don't think it's an argument that 'it can never be 100% safe' either.  you could have used that argument when their feet were sticking out in front or anything.  99% is better than 98%.

Drivers, well they'd drive anything just like they used to drive the old ones with no seat belts.  They're weird that's why we watch them! i don't think we can take their judgment about it, and they don't all agree anyway.

Taking anything to its logical conclusion is guaranteed to be extreme and irrelevant.  And finally FIA have done tests with an overturned car.

Then we come back to the lives it could have saved, and therefore will save.

[morini]

<snip valid points>
Then we come back to the lives it could have saved, and therefore will save.

I remain to be convinced the halo will save any lives. I liken F1 to skydiving, "it ain't safe, it'll never be safe - if you are uncomfortable with that don't do it"

[Jody Barton]

I approve of the halo personally.  it's a step on the way not the final solution but just wait till a driver gets killed or maimed from doing 300kph 2 feet off the ground, with 1.5mm or whatever of flimsy visor between him and all kinds of debris or a car head-on.

a lot of nonsense gets talked about how it wouldn't have saved Henry Surtees or Justin Wilson or Jules Bianchi or Dan Wheldon but there are good reasons to think it would or could, it's just wishing really to pretend it's not there for a reason.  Think how close Schumi was to getting a front wing in his face in Abu Dhabi and there've been some other near misses too.

just one example of how my dictatorship would be better than a committee

Now on this I’m 100% with Chloe on. Yes the Halo is ugly, yes there are some concerns with regards to visibility, but I got to see the FIA video of the extraction tests with the halo a few weeks back, you know what? It was actually easier for the drivers to extract themselves from the car, the marshal extraction took no longer with the Halo, and actually there have been a number of accidents where the Halo would have, or could have saved lives... is it the best solution? No. Is some form of protection necessary? Yeah kinda.

Also Fog, I’m not part of the consensus, I do not believe in a minimum number of pit stops for instance, and I remain yet to be convinced multiple tyre manufacturers would help with the racing. Ditto refuelling.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Yeah, I'm a bit in two minds over the Halo, in one hand, I think like Brundle that, the cars are safe enough, on the other hand, I get that you can't un-invent a safety device, I thought the shield a better option though, and found it a little odd, that after Seb tested it for SF, the FIA suddenlt went with the SF developed halo, not a conspiracy mind, just thought it odd - if driver can drive in other series with helmut and screen, not sure why that couldn't have worked - I just think they were in too much of a rush to get it through

on tyres though, I think it's just another element to the mix, you say that's fine - but if one has a better advantage than another - isn't that exactly the same as the cars themselves? so for example, if another team like McLaren had a better tyre, they might be able to compete, but as you say there's pro's and cons - if Merc had the better tyre they'd be even more in front

my point on refuelling is more to see the cars lighter, and so at the maximum speeds for longer - but I wouldn't do it to be honest on safety grounds

---

"They're weird that's why we watch them!"

haha line of the day Chloe

[morini]

you know what? It was actually easier for the drivers to extract themselves from the car

Did they try that with an overturned car? I think not.

[Antilochos]

Don't really get the halo. F1 always has been a open cockpit sport and nowadays, the cars a quite safe (more risk for everybody around the car than those inside). How much extra safety does the halo add? It sure adds a extra ugly part (again). The teams don't want it, the drivers don't want it and the fans don't want it.

A average motorbike driver or bicycle driver (racebiks, mtb's, my grandmother and seven year old son...) will consider F1 drivers as sissies.

[Jody Barton]

you know what? It was actually easier for the drivers to extract themselves from the car

Did they try that with an overturned car? I think not.

Actually Morini they did. The halo made it easier to extract, it meant there was greater clearance. Like you I was skeptical, but having seen the video I think many of my concerns, as a former marshal, have actually been alleviated.