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So, that 5 second penalty ... - Printable Version

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RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - forzaferrari - 24-06-2019

(24-06-2019, 05:37 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:   As to Ferrari's double electric loom from last season... It's gone hasn't it. Wink

Has it gone?....or still just monitored? (genuine question).....some (inc Newey & Mercedes) still question the Ferraris power surge & ability to deploy for longer....

“Ferrari suddenly has a leap in power like last year,” Red Bull Adrian Newey complains.

“Last year they were pulling away from us in the acceleration phase, at the top speed we were similar, and now they are faster from the beginning to the end of the straights and our speed curve flattens as the MGU-K no longer delivers power, Ferrari MHU-K continues to work. they have some advantage with their V6 engine and electrical systems,” said the unnamed Mercedes engineer.

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - Jody Barton - 24-06-2019

I believe it is gone Forza, and the traces say the advantage isn't as big this year as last. They've just got way less downforce than Mercedes and RBR, so I think the real question is how the hell is the Mercedes so quick in a straight line with all that downforce and drag? I think Ferrari do have a slight PU advantage, but not as much as some claim,l. Take France, they cranked on more downforce and they went slower in the straights and a bit quicker in the corners.

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - morini - 24-06-2019

(24-06-2019, 05:37 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  On the cheating score I believe there has been a question put into the FIA about Mercedes rear wheel steering engine maps and whether they are a breach of traction control rules... so maybe German cheating bastards? As to Ferrari's double electric loom from last season... It's gone hasn't it. Wink

This is the biggest load of cobblers I've heard in a while. The two terms highlighted in your post above are mutually exclusive IMO! How can you possibly induce any rear wheel steering with an engine map anyway? Either the rear wheels actually steer (a la 1990's honda preludes) or the car oversteers, which is a natural result of a *lack* or traction NOT traction control. How "rear wheel steering" is in the same sentance as the words "traction contol" defies all logic.

Also, traction control is not allowed in F1 yet dynamically tuneable differentials are ok. What are these other than a form of traction control?

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - Jody Barton - 24-06-2019

Honestly Morini? I agree. The rumours are that the Merc ERS system might either apply unequal power to both rear wheels to aid turning, or apply the brakes unequally, which I don't think is a break, and I'm sure I read Renault have been doing that for years now and it hasn't exactly helped them.

The applying of ERS unevenly is necessarily a breach, and if they are doing it, they doing it to almost lose control to gain steering angle, so on that score I agree with you again. Won't stop teams complaining though.

As to dynamically tunable diffs? That's a whole other discussion buddy, and again, I'm likely to be in 100% agreement.

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - forzaferrari - 24-06-2019

Yeah it may sound daft but in my uneducated opinion it is not beyond the realms....think brake by wire steering...brake one wheel across an axle and that axle will rotate.

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - morini - 24-06-2019

(24-06-2019, 07:06 PM)forzaferrari Wrote:  Yeah it may sound daft but in my uneducated opinion it is not beyond the realms....think brake by wire steering...brake one wheel across an axle and that axle will rotate.

My car has that, it's called torque vectoring and almost always used in conjunction with traction control systems. Most traction control approaches employ individual wheel braking as well as ECU mapping in order to limit how much an individual wheel is allowed to spin (the TC part). Torque vectoring is an extension of that to add stability while cornering. You can feel it in the wet in my car if you drive the thing like a tit (mostly at the front through the steering). But I'm pretty damn sure braking individual wheels for torque vectoring isn't happening in F1. It'd be really easy to detect and they'd be found out and disqualified.

Its all "Conspiracy theories R us" I reckon.

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - forzaferrari - 24-06-2019

Yep, torque vectoring (TV) is the techy term however this only termed when being provided through the diff (from what I can recall anyway...perhaps things have moved on since my automotive days)

... but yeah I agree on the Conspiracy theories R us

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - Jody Barton - 25-06-2019

Had a chat with one of my technical bod friends and he said using the ERS system to "unevenly break the rear axel using steering lock as the gauge is more than possible". Also uneven breaking via break bias and balance isn't a breach of the rules and he thinks most of the big teams have tested systems in the past 5 years, and canned them because they couldn't get them to work. Maybe Mercedes have?

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - PapaofGags - 25-06-2019

Didn't Damon or Martin suggest this during the weekend? rear wheel steering? sure they did.

RE: So, that 5 second penalty ... - Jody Barton - 25-06-2019

Maybe they did Papa, but it's been a topic of conversation a ongst techies since China where the rear end of the Merc just looked like it was behaving differently to all other cars on the track. It was noticeable in Spain too, but in Monaco it was glaring. It could just be rear suspension geometry, but either way the Merc's change of direction is rapid.