[black]

Lol :-) That made tea come out of my nose.

Still no official pole position for Lewis Hamilton at Istanbul Park. Had it not been for the penalty that would have been a pole at 31 different circuits. At any rate, a pole at 30 different tracks is quite some spectacular record.

[morini]

Spaniard dodges bullet

   

I thought that was normally a slam dunk 5 place grid drop?

[Antilochos]

Mercedes looked even stronger than I thought. Great work from the team and Hamilton taking pole (I know, not official but still).
Being that strong here, I see Bottas winning this race. I expect Hamilton on the podium and will not even be surprised if he is fighting for the win. The car seems to have a clear advantage over all others including Red Bull / Verstappen (yeah, clearly over Red Bull / Perez).
What is actually the deal with Perez? He seems lost. I know Verstappen is the better driver, but he should not be that far behind.

Still, Verstappen will be there although he needs to watch out with the start. He is on the dirty part and not only makes this it harder to jump Bottas, but Leclerc who has looked fast this weekend could jump him! And then he is screwed, since in race pace I am not sure if Leclerc can keep up, but he can hold Verstappen up while Bottas moves away.

Another guy that has been fast whole weekend is Gasly. Great work again. He should be driving the Red Bull next year.

Alonso, I really enjoy having him back on the track in F1. All that while his teammate is far behind again.

Then McLaren, I was expecting much more from them. Don't know why they aren't closer to the top. And Ricciardo, his career is going downhill fast.

[black]

What is actually the deal with Perez? He seems lost. I know Verstappen is the better driver, but he should not be that far behind.

It's pretty simple really. Verstappen likes a car set up in a particular way he likes and can handle, pointy and on edge, basically. None of his team mates have had the same preference but the team is 100% driven to make a car which suits Verstappen above all else. If you don't believe that then just look at the latest comments from Horner "we will sacrifice the constructors title to ensure Verstappen wins the drivers title". That is disgraceful and not the attitude of a true F1 team as the constructors title is what supposedly matters more to a F1 team than anything else.

This weekend the teams were anticipating the track would be awful just like it was last year. It wasn't, in fact offering much more grip than anyone expected. Red Bull ended up with more of an understeer balance on Friday and Checo looked faster / happier than Verstappen right through the Friday FP sessions because that sort of balance suits his style better. Checos first Q3 run on used soft tyres was pretty respectable in fairness. Where he let himself down was not improving on the second new tyre run.

Basically, it ain't a level playing field!!! Compare and contrast Mercedes philosophy for running their F1 team. They take setup input from both drivers and in my opinion the overall package is better because of that fact. People wrongly say Bottas is crap, he definitely isn't, he's damned fast and a great asset in providing feedback to set up the cars. Don't label the Red Bull second drivers as shit either just because they do not get the same attention as the golden boy.

RBR is a one driver team. Always has been.

[Antilochos]

What is actually the deal with Perez? He seems lost. I know Verstappen is the better driver, but he should not be that far behind.

It's pretty simple really. Verstappen likes a car set up in a particular way he likes and can handle, pointy and on edge, basically. None of his team mates have had the same preference but the team is 100% driven to make a car which suits Verstappen above all else. If you don't believe that then just look at the latest comments from Horner "we will sacrifice the constructors title to ensure Verstappen wins the drivers title". That is disgraceful and not the attitude of a true F1 team as the constructors title is what supposedly matters more to a F1 team than anything else.

This weekend the teams were anticipating the track would be awful just like it was last year. It wasn't, in fact offering much more grip than anyone expected. Red Bull ended up with more of an understeer balance on Friday and Checo looked faster / happier than Verstappen right through the Friday FP sessions because that sort of balance suits his style better. Checos first Q3 run on used soft tyres was pretty respectable in fairness. Where he let himself down was not improving on the second new tyre run.

Basically, it ain't a level playing field!!! Compare and contrast Mercedes philosophy for running their F1 team. They take setup input from both drivers and in my opinion the overall package is better because of that fact. People wrongly say Bottas is crap, he definitely isn't, he's damned fast and a great asset in providing feedback to set up the cars. Don't label the Red Bull second drivers as shit either just because they do not get the same attention as the golden boy.

RBR is a one driver team. Always has been.

I don't say RBR will give one driver an advantage if that driver, in this case Verstappen, is their nr. 1. 
But you are a bit naive to think other teams don't do this. Especially Mercedes. Have you really closed your eyes how they have cut of Bottas balls and used him as a bitch, multiple times this year?

All I wonder about that even with a car that suits Verstappen, there still are enough parts to set up for Perez to at least be closer than he is now (and I mean not just this race). They are bloody racers, should get into a car and drive. Look what Verstappen did with his first race at Red Bull, jumping into Kvyat's car and winning a race. Or Russel (I have a feeling you don't like Verstappen) when he jumped into Hamilton his Mercedes last year and drove the shit out of that so called fast Bottas. That are racers, that is how it should be. Only getting some little bit extra helps with a car build around you, but not 0.5 or more.

[NeilP]

Well, its possible you may be on to something but I do not think you are 100% correct. Perez, Albon and Gasly have all failed to match Verstappen so why would Red Bull keep swapping out drivers if the end result is always going to be just the same because of the car, that makes zero sense. Daniel Ricciardo was Verstappens closest team mate and I guess you could make an argument for the fact they have similar driving traits.

The design philosophy for each teams car is the same but the set ups for each car can and does vary enormously so I am not buying that as a valid reason for the whole disparity. There is more than enough room for variation from track to track and driver to driver.

I have not seen Horners comments myself and trust me I depise the guy more than most but in truth I think pretty much most of the Team Principles would sacrifice the WDC for the drivers Championship. At the end of the day everyone talks about the WDC not the WCC so the teams get enough Kudos from that alone.

No driver in F1 is shit. They are all amazing in their own way. Occasionally someone like Mazepin gets into F1 on his connections or money rather than talent alone but even he is a very capable driver just not good enough for F1. All Red Bulls second drivers have been F1 worthy in my book. Ricciardo and Gasly are special drivers indeed. Perez is best as an underdog driver and has overachieved in that role which is a credit to him. Albon was simply not ready for the car which has been a Red Bull trait of late.

Pretty much all F1 teams have a clear number One driver, does that make them a One driver team: in some cases yes in others no. Mercedes and Hamilton fan myself and there is no doubt in my mind despite appearances Hamilton is a one man show. That I feel will absolutely change next year with George Russell coming into the team.

I hate Red Bull with a passion and nothing would make me happier than to see them fall flat on their face but credit where credit is due they have had an outstanding season so far.

[black]

I don't say RBR will give one driver an advantage if that driver, in this case Verstappen, is their nr. 1. 
But you are a bit naive to think other teams don't do this. Especially Mercedes. Have you really closed your eyes how they have cut of Bottas balls and used him as a bitch, multiple times this year?

All I wonder about that even with a car that suits Verstappen, there still are enough parts to set up for Perez to at least be closer than he is now (and I mean not just this race). They are bloody racers, should get into a car and drive. Look what Verstappen did with his first race at Red Bull, jumping into Kvyat's car and winning a race. Or Russel (I have a feeling you don't like Verstappen) when he jumped into Hamilton his Mercedes last year and drove the shit out of that so called fast Bottas. That are racers, that is how it should be. Only getting some little bit extra helps with a car build around you, but not 0.5 or more.

Bottas may be a "bitch" (your words, not mine) this year, but really that is his own fault for having such poor race results early in the season. Hamilton doesn't only like Bottas because he knows he can beat him on race day, I genuinely think there is mutual respect and Lewis rates Valtteri's skills and input to the team. Plus they both push the car setup / development in similar ways which benefits both drivers and the whole team. It is a team sport and whatever you might say nobody has ever "gelled" with Verstappen and worked with him in partnership to push the team forward. He really is a one man band and I don't see that ever changing. That is the way I see it anyway.

No, I don't like Max Verstappen, I won't lie. I think he is a rich entitled twat who has a cretin / thug father as a role model. That said, he is an incredibly talented driver and I enjoy watching him race a lot of the time. I think he lacks race craft and expects everyone to jump out of his way. Mostly that is because of his father and Helmut Marko blowing smoke up his arse for his whole life. The boy needs to learn some humility. Hamilton drew a line in the sand at Silverstone with regard to jumping out of the way, so lets see if the young charger learns anything from that longer term.

I have not seen Horners comments myself and trust me I depise the guy more than most but in truth I think pretty much most of the Team Principles would sacrifice the WDC for the drivers Championship.  At the end of the day everyone talks about the WDC not the WCC so the teams get enough Kudos from that alone.

I beg to differ, or perhaps I should say "that's bullshit, Neil". F1 teams covet the WCC above everything as it brings in money for next year. Mercedes have won the double ever since the hybrid era, but I'll bet you a pound to a pinch of shit if they could only take 1 of the 2 titles this year they would choose the constructors above the drivers title. It comes first, every single time for any self respecting F1 team. Win the constructors then (hopefully) get one of your drivers the WDC crown. Short spice said in the press they would sacrifice the constructors for Max to win the drivers. That tells me all I need to know about the Red Bull leadership. Thai is, they don't have any!

[PapaofGags]

Quote Neil "I have not seen Horners comments myself "    

Here you go mate.   

Short Spice.

On which championship meant more to Red Bull, Horner explained: "Well, it is a difficult one because you are so conflicted.

"The cash is with the constructors' so for every single member of the team, that is where Stefano [Domenicali, F1 CEO] pays the money out and we don't get a penny for winning the drivers', but the drivers' is where the prestige is.

"I would say in value, they have equal value. The prestige is with the drivers', the cash is with the constructors'.

"The drivers' is, I think, from a Red Bull perspective if you had to pick one out of the two, you'd go driver because that is where the prestige is.

"We want to be in that number one garage next year and that is our target. 

Sergio [Perez] has got a key role to play in that, he has had a run of bad luck but that will turn and we are still throwing everything at it in both of these championships."

[morini]

Nice to see some healthy exchanges!

I can see Paps posted "spice twats" view already, I was going to trawl the F1 sites for his recent knobhead comments but no need now. I'd be interested to see what Toto Wolff thinks about which "title is the most important". I'm pretty sure I know what he would say as well!

Black has it spot on for me. Red Bull need a shake up in their senior management next year. Mercedes approach the sport as a team, Red Bull approach it as a bid to make Max Verstappen a WDC above everything else. You can blame Horner, Marko and Verstappen Snr for that one eyed focus.

For what it is worth, Horner is wrong (as usual) and the constructors should always be the primary goal for any F1 team. The drivers trophy is a side effect of a job well done.

[The Professor]

Well, I quite like Verstappen myself, as a driver on track anyway. A no compromise racer, we need more of those, not less. It is the leaders of the team he drives for I despise.

If Verstappen drove for McLaren I would be right behind him. Thing is, McLaren don't need him as Lando will be more successful than Max in the long run. That chap is slowly morphing into a future legend. Best driver this season by far.