2018 tyres
#91

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/drive...s/3195860/

Just what you want to hear...…………

The tyre blistering Formula 1 drivers have had to manage at several races this year has felt like they are "completely cruising round", says Mercedes' Valtteri Bottas.

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#92

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra...k/3208817/

Ferrari team boss Maurizio Arrivabene thinks Formula 1 chiefs would be wrong to ‘throw away’ Pirelli’s experience and take on a brand new tyre supplier.

F1’s owners Liberty Media are currently weighing up financial offers from both Pirelli and Hankook to become the sport’s official tyre supplier from 2020 to 2023.

With both companies having been approved on technical grounds by the FIA, the final decision on who wins the tyre tender will come down to commercial matters.

Although Pirelli has had some difficult times since arriving in F1 in 2011, Arrivabene thinks that the sport would be making a mistake to ignore all the lessons that have been learned.

"Today the tender is in Liberty's hands,” said Arrivabene. “We have been working for some time with Pirelli.
“We have had positive phases and difficult moments, but year after year they have created a product that has evolved positively.
"Throwing everything from the window seems to me to be wrong. But, having said that, we do not make the choice.”

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#93

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-dr...a/3210397/

Formula 1 drivers' body, the GPDA, plans to discuss concerns about tyres and the state of racing in a meeting in Brazil on Friday, amid mounting frustrations with the sport.

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#94

And this is where I feel many of the issues with following other cars lies. Sure the wake from cars in front cause issues, but nowhere near as much as tyre degradation and over heating following other cars. Pirelli have done what has been asked of them, no question, but it's not the right answer for racing. I hope they can sort it out, but with the compounds being locked for 2019 now, we'll have to wait until 2020 at the earliest. Still, it's good drivers are speaking up.
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#95

It seems to me that the idea with tyres has been to try and force teams into more pit stops which in itself to me at least is an artificial outside influence on racing but instead of more stops it has created an environment of even more tyre management. So either mandate the minimum number of pit stops (I am NOT in favour of that) or make the tyres degrade even faster and make the difference between grades far greater than it is now, maybe just 2 types per race.

I am NOT in favour of any of the above its merely what I think has been going on and a better way of achieving the purpose intended.

What most fans want to see is a race from start to finish with teams and drivers going flat out each and every lap. Too much time and emphasis is being placed on equality of teams and as I have stated many times that is not the DNA of F1 and is also what Ferrari were referring to earlier in the year when they suggested they could withdraw under certain circumstances. I think the manipulation of tyres is almost as bad as randomly switching on hoses to wet the track it is simply creating more and more management.

Lighten up on the tyres give team a tyre that will go the whole race at maybe different speeds if that is your route to good racing.
Lighten up the limits on fuel, deal with the DRS system, deal with aero management and for the love God stop messing around with the rubber!!!
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#96

(08-11-2018, 10:55 PM)NeilP Wrote:  Lighten up on the tyres give team a tyre that will go the whole race at maybe different speeds if that is your route to good racing.
Lighten up the limits on fuel, deal with the DRS system, deal with aero management and  for the love God stop messing around with the rubber!!!

Agree with all of your sentiment there Neil, but (for me) F1 is primarily a sport for showcasing engineering excellence and that doesn’t always go hand in hand with close racing. Given that all teams work within the same boundaries (however stupid some of them are), tyres are pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, provided all the teams have the same supply. I don’t think tyres are the whole reason we don’t see flag to flag racing. Even if you bolted on a set of super sticky, last forever rubber onto each car there would still be other parameters needing to be managed to maximise lap time to the end of the race.
Whatever the circumstances, it’s up to the drivers to extract the maximum from what they have under them. That is the fascination the sport provides. Yes, some races can be a bit dull, but if you watch F1 as a team sport rather than a spectacle it will always deliver entertainment in some shape or form. Don’t get me wrong, I like exciting wheel to wheel racing as much as anyone, but I also like the team battles.
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#97

(09-11-2018, 08:40 PM)morini Wrote:  
(08-11-2018, 10:55 PM)NeilP Wrote:  Lighten up on the tyres give team a tyre that will go the whole race at maybe different speeds if that is your route to good racing.
Lighten up the limits on fuel, deal with the DRS system, deal with aero management and  for the love God stop messing around with the rubber!!!

Agree with all of your sentiment there Neil, but (for me) F1 is primarily a sport for showcasing engineering excellence and that doesn’t always go hand in hand with close racing. Given that all teams work within the same boundaries (however stupid some of them are), tyres are pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, provided all the teams have the same supply. I don’t think tyres are the whole reason we don’t see flag to flag racing. Even if you bolted on a set of super sticky, last forever rubber onto each car there would still be other parameters needing to be managed to maximise lap time to the end of the race.
Whatever the circumstances, it’s up to the drivers to extract the maximum from what they have under them. That is the fascination the sport provides. Yes, some races can be a bit dull, but if you watch F1 as a team sport rather than a spectacle it will always deliver entertainment in some shape or form. Don’t get me wrong, I like exciting wheel to wheel racing as much as anyone, but I also like the team battles.

I agree with you on the engineering comment. My main bitch about tyres has nothing really to do with competition more than they require 'managing' above and beyond what I personally deem to be reasonable. I do like there are options with tyres to run different strategies but I am also sure that could be achieved whilst at the same time keeping 'management' to a minimum.

Your comment about entertainment is spot on. Although I am a Hamilton and Mercedes fan I have enjoyed the midfield battles this year more than before but then if I am brutally honest I have enjoyed watching Vettel melt down and the tears of frustration from Forza too!!! Smile

... and dont get me started on Lotus!!!! Smile
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#98

(10-11-2018, 11:56 PM)NeilP Wrote:  
(09-11-2018, 08:40 PM)morini Wrote:  
(08-11-2018, 10:55 PM)NeilP Wrote:  Lighten up on the tyres give team a tyre that will go the whole race at maybe different speeds if that is your route to good racing.
Lighten up the limits on fuel, deal with the DRS system, deal with aero management and  for the love God stop messing around with the rubber!!!

Agree with all of your sentiment there Neil, but (for me) F1 is primarily a sport for showcasing engineering excellence and that doesn’t always go hand in hand with close racing. Given that all teams work within the same boundaries (however stupid some of them are), tyres are pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, provided all the teams have the same supply. I don’t think tyres are the whole reason we don’t see flag to flag racing. Even if you bolted on a set of super sticky, last forever rubber onto each car there would still be other parameters needing to be managed to maximise lap time to the end of the race.
Whatever the circumstances, it’s up to the drivers to extract the maximum from what they have under them. That is the fascination the sport provides. Yes, some races can be a bit dull, but if you watch F1 as a team sport rather than a spectacle it will always deliver entertainment in some shape or form. Don’t get me wrong, I like exciting wheel to wheel racing as much as anyone, but I also like the team battles.

I agree with you on the engineering comment. My main bitch about tyres has nothing really to do with competition more than they require 'managing' above and beyond what I personally deem to be reasonable. I do like there are options with tyres to run different strategies but I am also sure that could be achieved whilst at the same time keeping 'management' to a minimum.

Your comment about entertainment is spot on. Although I am a Hamilton and Mercedes fan I have enjoyed the midfield battles this year more than before but then if I am brutally honest I have enjoyed watching Vettel melt down and the tears of frustration from Forza too!!! Smile

... and dont get me started on Lotus!!!! Smile

You will try Neil lol you will try  Bird
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#99

While I in the main 100% agree with you Morini, I actually do think tyres are the main reason we don't see balls to the wall racing from green light to chequered flag. That's not to say with super sticky tyres that lasted forever we'd see more overtaking, we wouldn't necessarily, given the width of these cars, the wakes they produce and how difficult it is to get past them. However, we might see more mistakes as drivers would be able to push each other for longer. We do have to ask the question why it is races are getting longer and longer when these cars are seconds a lap quicker at some venues this year, there have been races where they've lapped almost as slow as the F2 cars in race trim. That's ridiculous band not what we sign up for when watching F1. A lot of that is down to tyre preservation, probably the lion's share, but there are other issues...

Tyres made of bubblegum is, however, only part of the answer. Regardless of the sporting regulations and technical specifications of the cars, you'll only see drivers pushing IF you give them the resources to do so... yes, rubber is the main element in that, but a very close second is fuel. The cars have a super limited amount of fuel and fuel flow rate regulation. You want them to push harder for longer? We need to cut down on the fuel saving. So, we either need bigger fuel tanks or refueling... as well as increased fuel flow rate. Or all of the above to give teams tactical options. Trouble is, Whiting and others have said we'll never see refueling in races in F1 again because it is too dangerous.

The third element required to be changed would be components allowed. One gearbox for 5 races, yeah... that would need to change, as would 3 engines per season, essentially meaning PU's need to do 7 races. I think they'd push more if they had the rubber and fuel to do so, but you'd still rub up against engine and gearbox management. If you want to see real balls to the wall racing you'd need qualifying engines and race engines every weekend, AND new gearboxes every event. That would cost serious money and given they're trying to reduce costs isn't going to happen.

I do think the sport could use a happy medium though, and find it. For starters give them 4 or preferably 5 engines per season. Gearboxes for every 3 or 4 race weekends. Up the fuel limit and fuel flow rate, and give drivers tyres they can push on consistently for longer, and make the degredation sharper. Giving the tyres broader operating temperatures would be a great start. I just think that while qualifying is getting better and better, the races are suffering because of the issues outlined above, there's too much fuel, engine and tyre saving going one.
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirel...s/4341913/

Formula 1 tyre supplier Pirelli has revealed its first estimation of the performance gap between the five different compounds of tyres it is running in 2019.

Although the Italian company admits it can be more definitive about the lap time delta once next week's final test has finished, it says that first estimates suggest a 0.6 gap between the softest of its tyres.

For 2019, Pirelli has changed the way that tyre compounds are being labelled. There are five base compounds, named C1 to C5, and three will be picked for each race – and will be called soft, medium and hard for the events.
Pirelli has brought all five compounds to testing, with the C1 (the hardest) estimated to be 0.8 – 1.0 seconds slower than the C2.

Pirelli's racing manager Mario Isola said the gap was quite big because: "The C1 in this condition is a bit too hard because it is cold. In my expectation if we come here with C1 for the race this delta should be less because the C1 is working better and will be closer to the C2."
Between the C2 and the C3, Isola estimated a gap of 0.7 seconds, while he said that the gap between the C3 and the C4, plus the C4 and the C5, was 0.6 seconds.

Pirelli's tyre gap estimate:
C1 to C2: 0.8 – 1.0 seconds
C2 to C3: 0.7 seconds
C3 to C4: 0.6 seconds
C4 to C5: 0.6 seconds

Isola said that having approximately 0.7 seconds gap between the majority of compounds was in line with what the company had hoped for this season.

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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