How do Ferrari or RBR stop Mercedes?
#21

Mercedes racing dominance, in terms of percentage wins are down to two factors, and one of them people possibly won't like hearing:

1) Reliability. How many times in previous eras did drivers "lose" gears, or have other issues forcing them to slow. Even during the Ferrari years the gremlins struck a fair few times.

2) The Drivers. Love him or hate him Lewis stands head and shoulders above most of his peers in terms of talent (Alonso aside in my opinion), and Rosberg is as good as the likes of Vettel, and I'd say beardy Bottas is relatively good too. Certainly better than Webber.

One of the reasons RBR didn't utterly dominate for me is that we had the two best drivers, Alonso and Hamilton in other cars, and were able to drag performances out of them and best RBR. Looking back at that era, and really assessing it I think it was clear from it that Seb, 4 WDC's that he has aside, was never on the level of Lewis and Fernando.

As to stopping Mercedes? God only knows. By all account Mercedes has offered technical details to both Ferrari, Renault and Honda with their engines. That was during 2016 and 2017, which is totally unprecedented in the sport. Ferrari were clearly able to capitalise, Honda are showing signs of getting there too, it's really only Renault who are in the wilderness engine wise.

Mercedes cornering speeds are so much higher than everyone else's, including RBR right now that it's clearly down to the Chassis, aero and mechanical grip the car produces. This is the first 100% Allison car Mercedes have produced, the 2018 car having legacy components, and we are really seeing the results. Obviously the donkey in the back of their car has plenty on grunt to force the car through the air at speed with all those wings and widgets, but, those wings and widgets work. I actually think their speed in the slow corners is more due to there suspension and mechanical grip, obviously aero is less important at slower speeds, and Mercedes have worked on their mechanical aspects far more than other teams over the last three years... coincidentally since Allison has been there.

How do the others stop them? Git Gud I guess, but part of me suspects it'll take a major rule change and Mercedes messing up... which doesn't seem likely.
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#22

(13-05-2019, 08:20 PM)forzaferrari Wrote:  
(13-05-2019, 07:21 PM)DRicc Wrote:   But its all a bit too clinical for me, almost robotic: even, dare I say it, a bit soulless. Where's the passion?

You would almost think they where German...eh Morini?  Tongue

Almost. But they're not Wink
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#23

(13-05-2019, 10:55 PM)NeilP Wrote:  This next event just totally bores me to tears. Will I watch, Sigh, Yes I will, will I enjoy it, No I will not. I would like to take a Jeroboam of Moet and ram the bottle down Careys mouth. If you are going to drop ANY event Chase THIS IS THE ONE!!!!

Monaco quality is normally awe inspiring. But, yes, after that finishes the Sunday is a borefest.
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#24

With you Morini, I actually enjoy qualifying in Monaco, but once that's done? Can't be arsed with it. The race is almost always universally dull, barring pitstop errors, mechanical failures or kamikaze drivers.
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#25

Saturday's qualifying at Monaco  >  One of the most exciting spectacles in any sport, mesmerising.  Smile

Sunday GP at Monaco  >  A procession of the most high tech cars on the planet, Boring as hell.   Shutup

Proviso a wet Monaco GP can be incredible  > Lets hope for rain!   Tongue

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#26

(14-05-2019, 08:45 AM)Jody Barton Wrote:  How do the others stop them? 

Hi, I remember a few years back Ross Brawn being asked how can the teams put an end to Red Bull's dominance, he replied "easy pull them apart" obviously meaning poach their staff, now Ross is a man I respect very highly I remember at the time his reply was as always intelligent but the thing that got me to post here was, it seemed ruthlessly cold, not the jolly happy Ross we are used to, guess I saw his dark ruthless side that they all need in F1.

Now I realise with Mercedes "gardening leave policy" it might be a lot harder to do these days, it was just reading Jody's "How do the others stop them?" that reminded me about Ross's comments & body language. 

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#27

The Helmet has spoken...

Red Bull motorsport advisor Dr Helmut Marko suggests that his team's run of domination over Formula 1 was constantly tripped up by regulation changes, in a way that Mercedes' current run has not.

"When we were not nearly as dominant as them, there were two or three changes in the regulations each year to put us on hold. But nobody seems interested in that at the moment."
"They only had to survive one change"

"You live more for 5 minutes going fast on a bike than other people do in all of their life"....Marco Simoncelli
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#28

One change? Joker.

So removal of FRIC, change engine maps, change in floors, removal of aero elements on suspension, constant front wing changes during 2014 to 2016, a full overhaul of the aero regs in 2017 and another over haul in 2019? The man's delusional.

The rules from 2010 to 2013 were far more stable during that period, and the Red Bull silver bullet wasn't regulated away in the same way that FRIC and Slip Power Control mapping has been for Mercedes. The FIA have literally ruled out 5 Mercedes major technical innovations in the last 5 years... that's one a year.
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