Ferrari
#11

Sounds plausible to me it’s definitely not black and white is it
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#12

(10-10-2018, 02:33 PM)LotusLover Wrote:  Sounds plausible to me it’s definitely not black and white is it

I think both Ferrari tuning down their engines to save them, and or having to stop cheating because of the second sensor are eminently plausible. The other explanations people are giving far less so. So at this point you pick your poison and believe what you believe, but you can't prove it either way. If we see the Ferrari engined car performance return in say Austin, Mexico, Brazil or Abu Dhabi then we can conclude that maybe they were managing their engines. If it doesn't return at all then they are open to accusation they were cheating, even if they weren't. What is suspect though is that the dip in performance coincided with the addition of a second sensor. It's all circumstantial evidence at this point, but there is a slight whiff about it. I'm not willing to crucify them yet, but if next season they don't retain their "complex" battery and wiring set up them we can conclude it was probably all there to get around the FIAs sensor so they could deploy / harvest more energy than they are permitted under the regulations.
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#13

Thanks for some great content Jody, very thought provoking. I now understand why Renault were the ones to flag this up first, it also helps my brain understand why the Renault engine and Red Bull car is so good at times.

I have a hard time believing Ferrari were 'cheating' as such especially with the FIA being so closely involved with what has been going on. The 'problem' with this sport is teams and brilliant minds are constantly pushing the very boundaries of technology to gain the smallest advantages and it must be very difficult to monitor these things and also to decide whether it is against the rules, circumventing the rules or merely stretching them.

One thing is for sure Ferrari have absolutely dropped some performance and Mercedes have obviously found some. In what measure each of those gains and losses are responsible for the gap I think will have to remain guesswork for fans right now.
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#14

I don't have a hard time believing Ferrari were cheating though NeilP, it's just I choose to believe option 4 for now. However, given the complex electrical setup in their cars it was always plausible they were just setting it up to bypass the FIAs deployment sensors and to breach the permitted amount of deployment and harvesting. That's what the original accusations were, and that is why a second sensor was added. It also has added intrigue because rumours are that Laurent Mekies was the guy drafted across to sign off on legality of Ferrari's engines after Renault signed Marcin Budkowski. How true that is I have zero idea, but it is a rumour doing the rounds on certain sites. Just to be clear, circumnavigating the FIAs sensors to breach permitted limits of oil burning, energy harvesting or deployment, or anything else is utterly illegal, and is a breach of the sporting regulations... the issue is proving that's what they did, and good luck with that.
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#15

(10-10-2018, 05:11 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  I don't have a hard time believing Ferrari were cheating though NeilP, it's just I choose to believe option 4 for now. However, given the complex electrical setup in their cars it was always plausible they were just setting it up to bypass the FIAs deployment sensors and to breach the permitted amount of deployment and harvesting. That's what the original accusations were, and that is why a second sensor was added. It also has added intrigue because rumours are that Laurent Mekies was the guy drafted across to sign off on legality of Ferrari's engines after Renault signed Marcin Budkowski. How true that is I have zero idea, but it is a rumour doing the rounds on certain sites. Just to be clear, circumnavigating the FIAs sensors to breach permitted limits of oil burning, energy harvesting or deployment, or anything else is utterly illegal, and is a breach of the sporting regulations... the issue is proving that's what they did, and good luck with that.

It’s not right Jody if that is the case! But isn’t it daunting to think that to even try and get competitive with the dominance of the Mercedes someone had to effectively cheat (if that is the case). I wonder why the other manufacturers didn’t put in the research and effort that Mercedes did for this quite frankly horrible era of racing! Although I will admit if it had stayed in its previous concept I would of been fed up of RBR thrashing everyone although I believe teams may of caught up in a quicker period of time than it’s currently taking!

(10-10-2018, 05:26 PM)LotusLover Wrote:  
(10-10-2018, 05:11 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  I don't have a hard time believing Ferrari were cheating though NeilP, it's just I choose to believe option 4 for now. However, given the complex electrical setup in their cars it was always plausible they were just setting it up to bypass the FIAs deployment sensors and to breach the permitted amount of deployment and harvesting. That's what the original accusations were, and that is why a second sensor was added. It also has added intrigue because rumours are that Laurent Mekies was the guy drafted across to sign off on legality of Ferrari's engines after Renault signed Marcin Budkowski. How true that is I have zero idea, but it is a rumour doing the rounds on certain sites. Just to be clear, circumnavigating the FIAs sensors to breach permitted limits of oil burning, energy harvesting or deployment, or anything else is utterly illegal, and is a breach of the sporting regulations... the issue is proving that's what they did, and good luck with that.

It’s not right Jody if that is the case! But isn’t it daunting to think that to even try and get competitive with the dominance of the Mercedes someone had to effectively cheat (if that is the case). I wonder why the other manufacturers didn’t put in the research and effort that Mercedes did for this quite frankly horrible era of racing! Although I will admit if it had stayed in its previous concept I would of been fed up of RBR thrashing everyone although I believe teams may of caught up in a quicker period of time than it’s currently taking!

I will add actually that Renault and the others are doing it the “correct” way but look at the difference between them and the leaders it’s shocking
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#16

LL that's why I'm choosing to believe it's not cheating, and that their is a flaw of some kind in the latest iteration of Ferrari's PU they need to manage, otherwise it is just too damn depressing. Because the 2017 Ferrari and even the Renault engine, didn't finish too far off of the Mercedes unit. If Ferrari really have fallen back on the engine side as they seem too, then essentially that means their 2018 units aren't any better than the units they ended 2017 with. That's a lot of R&D into cheating... so I'm not buying it. What we can say is that if Renault can sort out the gremlins in their spec C engine it's arguably not far off Mercedes in race trim, we can also say the Honda unit is there or thereabouts in terms of Renault's spec C engine, with Ferrari I don't really know where. That's the real worry right now, that Ferrari have spent 12 months developing a way to cheat, or get around the regulatory regime, literally wasting 12 months, if that's true after 2017 where their engine was near parity with Mercedes that's a grim decision and one that'll set competition in the sport back. Especially given Mercedes decided to treat Ferrari's performance as a legitimate target, and add some performance as what their engine team should target for 2019. For a few years Mercedes have worked mostly on drivability and reliability, if they're focussing on improving their performance, especially with Sassi onboard now, well, yeah, let's not think about it.
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#17

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139756...pment-role

Robert Kubica could take up a development role at the Ferrari Formula 1 team next season.

He is understood to have had discussions over a simulator position with Ferrari, which needs to replace Antonio Giovinazzi and Daniil Kvyat because its 2018 development drivers have secured '19 F1 drives with Sauber and Toro Rosso respectively.

Kubica would not be a reserve driver at Ferrari because Giovinazzi would be called up from Sauber should either Sebastian Vettel or Charles Leclerc be unavailable.

Ferrari has relied heavily on its development drivers this season and the work on the simulator over grand prix weekends has often been specifically credited for turnarounds in form from practice to qualifying and the race.

Kubica is not thought to have agreed a deal with Ferrari yet.

Kubica also said driving for Ferrari was one of the three goals he had in his career: the others were racing in F1 and winning the world championship.

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#18

Kubica as a development driver would be an absolutely inspired choice. He'd be amazing signing. I would approve of his signing.
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#19

Ferrari never had a dominant car in 2018, says Vettel...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra...l/3207115/

"You live more for 5 minutes going fast on a bike than other people do in all of their life"....Marco Simoncelli
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#20

(02-11-2018, 07:50 PM)forzaferrari Wrote:  Ferrari never had a dominant car in 2018, says Vettel...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra...l/3207115/

LOL  Big Grin

You have to laugh. He'd have been better off shutting the fuck up Wink
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