[Antilochos]

F1 is losing itself with a almost crusade kind of like surge for safety. 

Almost impossible, but I leave that ugly halo aside for a while.

Racing. We all want to see racing. Let those guys out there and race, race hard. Yes, there need to be rules, but lately (in like last couple of years) there is so much discussion about a penalty is correct or not. 

I kick this discussion of with that there a to many penalties in the first place. Every single move that is not sticking to the perfect racing line and keeping all other cars far from you, will be meeting a penalty, or at least a discussion. Seems almost like f*cking politics out there.
Let them touch a little bit. We all can see the difference between hard racing and dirty racing (and even a little dirty can be allowed). 

I love the drivers like Magnussen, Alonso and Verstappen, that are hard racers. Yes, sometimes they go to far, sometimes they mess up, but don't we all? How dull will it be with a track filled with the ideal "son in law".
Look how boring the sport has become compared to the old days. Imagine how boring it will be within just a couple of years if this trend keeps going.

Who is with me, who wants less penalties (discussions) and more fighting on track?

[forzaferrari]

sign me up Anti, im in

[NeilP]

Anti - I get where you are coming from I dont agree there are too many penalties but I am fed up with drivers and how they react to them. I am also sick and tired of how they are applied and to whom.

I mean Verstappen on Raikkonen this weekend was a classic "why didn't he wait for me" WTF do you think you are Max!!!!!! I dont think they are severe enough. A 5 second penalty is for crap if they stay out long enough they seem to be able to swallow that up.

Same race Vettel should absolutely have taken a penalty for hitting Verstappen . Again listen to his reactions "what was he thinking" No Sebastian what the hell were you thinking.

I would do two penalties a 20 second time penalty and a drive through. End of story. Ironically Anti that may help you see more overtaking and action as the drivers would have to be very aware of the consequences of screwing up!!!!

[LotusLover]

Anti - I get where you are coming from I dont agree there are too many penalties but I am fed up with drivers and how they react to them. I am also sick and tired of how they are applied and to whom.

I mean Verstappen on Raikkonen this weekend was a classic "why didn't he wait for me" WTF do you think you are Max!!!!!! I dont think they are severe enough. A 5 second penalty is for crap if they stay out long enough they seem to be able to swallow that up.

Same race Vettel should absolutely have taken a penalty for hitting Verstappen . Again listen to his reactions "what was he thinking" No Sebastian what the hell were you thinking.

I would do two penalties a 20 second time penalty and a drive through. End of story. Ironically Anti that may help you see more overtaking and action as the drivers would have to be very aware of the consequences of screwing up!!!!

I must admit at times on Suzuka I felt same Neil as you, I think it’s what we hear them say that makes us get more wound up, can you imagine if we had radio when Senna and Prost were in the Mclaren? Penalties for me are even more annoying pre race ie engine or gearbox pens, that I really really find prohibitive! I’m not sure Anti seeing Verstappen pull that move off on Kimi back in Spa I think last year or one before is needed on the race track and that’s where it gets tricky doesn’t it

[PapaofGags]

I think it’s what we hear them say that makes us get more wound up, can you imagine if we had radio when Senna and Prost were in the Mclaren? 

Swearing, lots of it, in Brazilian/Portuguese & French Haha.   

I'm with you on the racing Anti, rubbing is racing or should be for fan's entertainment, a little bit of niggle provokes a lot of passion, I'm with the majority on penalty's way too many, (of all types) are we trying to stop them attacking? 

So rather than more Penalty's, the next time Max, K-Mag or any driver moves to defend in the braking zone the car behind should be able to take out the *villain* with no penalty! that would stop the silliness straight away without the need for the stewards, to harsh?  Hehe  

[Antilochos]

Anti - I get where you are coming from I dont agree there are too many penalties but I am fed up with drivers and how they react to them. I am also sick and tired of how they are applied and to whom.

I mean Verstappen on Raikkonen this weekend was a classic "why didn't he wait for me" WTF do you think you are Max!!!!!! I dont think they are severe enough. A 5 second penalty is for crap if they stay out long enough they seem to be able to swallow that up.

Same race Vettel should absolutely have taken a penalty for hitting Verstappen . Again listen to his reactions "what was he thinking" No Sebastian what the hell were you thinking.

I would do two penalties a 20 second time penalty and a drive through. End of story. Ironically Anti that may help you see more overtaking and action as the drivers would have to be very aware of the consequences of screwing up!!!!

You might be right that it is not the amount of penalties, but the way they are applied. I don't mind the reaction of drivers that much. A lot of it is in the heat of the moment (and I excuse them for it just as I'm willing to let some bad moves pass). 
What does botters me, now you pointed this out, is the media attention for this silly nonsens. Like, why give so much room in the media for Vettel wanting to speak Verstappen?
Don't know who said it in another thread here, but the fact that we spent so much time discussing silly incidents, might show us the lack of action on the track. They should make F1 great again...

[Jody Barton]

I'm not so sure about making the sport more "dangerous" and personally I think that they should make the sport as safe as possible, but driving carbon fibre cars around tracks with other cars at high speed is never going to be entirely safe.

As to rubbing paint? We have see cars clash and bump tyres, Seb and Ricciardo in China last year, Seb and Hamilton in Monza, I have no issue with cars bumping wheels or getting into bumps. The issue is when drivers try to make passes that aren't reasonable.

The question and debate is around what is legal. If someone makes a move and a pass off the track then sure, like Max on Kimi at CotA last year, frustrating as I found it initially it was open and shut for me. A driver forces another off of a track is difficult...

Again let's use a Max in an example (why always Max?), but in Monza he forced Bottas off of the track. That to me was open and shut, Max really didn't leave any room, and wasn't trying to make the corner, that deserved to me. Now compare a similar defence in Austria between Lewis and Seb, just before Seb got past, Lewis showed Seb to the outside of the track the lap before at turn 4 I think, but left him space and allowed him to make the corner. Hard as hell, but fair, a lap later at turn 3 Seb did the same when passing Lewis, hard but respectable racing.

So what we have is the going for the gap, the fomous Senna quote, which by the way was said about something he later admitted was actually him deliberately taking out Prost, like he'd done to him the year before. So when is a gap, not a gap? That's a matter of judgement, and always will be. I think it was was Alonso who said it's a gap if you can make the corner reasonably without hitting the other guy it's a gap, if you need to other car to go off the track or disappear to make the corner, then it's not a gap. I know people don't like Alonso sometimes, but on this I agree with him.

So going back to the weekend, and Seb's Move on Max, do I want to see a situation where drivers don't make moves like that? No, it's part of the sport, because sometimes they come off, I've seen Senna, Prost, Gilles, Mansell, Schumacher, Alonso, Häkkinen, Hamilton, Verstappen and Ricciardo all pull of no gap moves, but neatly and so I guess there was a gap. With Seb at Spoon... there wasn't a gap, he needed Max to disappear off of the track to avoid a collision.

He paid the price, it cost him. Do I think he should have got a penalty, *shrug* not really, am I surprised he didn't get a penalty? Yes and no. Yes, because he deserved a penalty for causing the collision... and, no because it didn't seemingly loose Max anything, and Seb got some instant Karma, plus to my mind they probably didn't want to hit him anymore than he hit himself.

[NeilP]

and, no because it didn't seemingly loose Max anything,

See this is a prevailing attitude and was covered by Martin Brundle a few races back. Just because Driver A or B comes off worse should not affect the penalty. That is inconsistent with the rules. If an act warrants a penalty the result of the incident is irrelevant the penalty should be applied regardless.

The biggest issue I have with penalties are the inconsistencies.

My further thoughts on this is Max Verstappen ever going to learn, I do not think he is. His penalty on Raikkonen was just but listen to his attitude. Nigel Mansell would have punched him in the face, I miss the old days!!!!

[LotusLover]

and, no because it didn't seemingly loose Max anything,

See this is a prevailing attitude and was covered by Martin Brundle a few races back. Just because Driver A or B comes off worse should not affect the penalty. That is inconsistent with the rules. If an act warrants a penalty the result of the incident is irrelevant the penalty should be applied regardless.

The biggest issue I have with penalties are the inconsistencies.

My further thoughts on this  is Max Verstappen ever going to learn, I do not think he is.  His penalty on Raikkonen was just but listen to his attitude. Nigel Mansell would have punched him in the face, I miss the old days!!!!

Hahaha I am picturing that now Mansell the Mooey laying one on MV

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Surely if your driving is either detrimental to the others race ie takes him out or damages his car to a point he can no longer race effectively then surely a penalty is warranted, however a bit of rub and elbows out but no damage done then “crack on ladies” race hard race fair! In the words of good ol Delilah Smith “LETS BE AVIN YOU”

[PapaofGags]

Nigel Mansell would have punched him in the face, I miss the old days!!!!

Spot on buddy Haha.