Poll: Does Bottas deserve his Mercedes seat? - You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes
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2
16.67%
No
83.33%
10
83.33%
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Bottas, does he deserve his Mercedes seat?
#41

(14-04-2019, 05:36 PM)Antilochos Wrote:  
(14-04-2019, 05:03 PM)NeilP Wrote:  I think this sums up Bottas to me. Best wingman on the grid!

That might be the best way to describe the man.

Ok chaps, I can see he's not rated here and I'm on a hiding to nothing Wink. I think you are all being a bit harsh on him to be honest. There are drivers in your list Anti who haven't shown all that much either.

The thing Bottas hasn't shown for me is a racing brain. Rosberg didn't have that either, he was shit in wheel to wheel combat, but he won a WDC against Hamilton in 2016. I'll stick to my guns, Bottas is better than Rosberg was.
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#42

Morini, I like the guy I really do and he is a very good driver he is just not good enough to be a number 1 driver in a top team. He is however a good number two. I guess my frustrations are exacerbated by my desire to see Ricciardo or Ocon in that seat.

He will win again this year of that I am fairly sure Smile
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#43

Fair enough Neil, but Anti has Grosjean and Perez in his list. I think it's an insult putting those two ahead of a proven race winner Wink
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#44

(14-04-2019, 08:03 PM)morini Wrote:  Fair enough Neil, but Anti has Grosjean and Perez in his list. I think it's an insult putting those two ahead of a proven race winner Wink


As can be seen on these threads we all have differing views of things and discussion is healthy its why we are here. I personally would rank Bottas easily in my top 10.

I love to see differing opinions and debate, what I also like to see is respect and so far this season the people who remain on the board are doing just that.
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#45

(14-04-2019, 08:08 PM)NeilP Wrote:  I love to see differing opinions and debate, what I also like to see is respect and so far this season the people who remain on the board are doing just that.

I'm with you on that. I hope people can accept differences of opinion as exactly that (disagreements!). I don't want anyone else leaving just because they don't share my viewpoints. It won't stop me trying to put them across though Wink
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#46

It would be dull if we all had the same opinion. I like it to hear a different point of view. I even like it more when I'm being convinced of the opposite, meaning I learned something (must say I'm not convinced on the Bottas case...).

So don't hold back Morini.
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#47

Good lord, the Bottas question... On his day he is capable of delivering hot laps on a Saturday, and leading from the front on a Sunday. I too have question marks over his ability in wheel to wheel combat like Morini. Last year there were a few races where he was either mugged completely, or just didn't get the job done in terms of making an overtake. I also agree with Morini that Rosberg lacked in that department too, but crucially he did get moves done, and a few times got them done on Lewis.

I think people still underestimate Rosberg, in terms of gap to Lewis in qualifying he is actually, on average, the stiffest competition he has had in his career, he was closer on average than both Button AND Alonso, surely that counts for something? I know there were mitigating circumstances in the Alonso and Hamilton battle at McLaren, but still, that's impressive from Rosberg. Bottas in his third season alongside Hamilton is behind all of those three in terms of how close he is to Lewis on a Saturday only beating Heikki Kovalainen who was just way off of Lewis' pace.

Yet, and this is crucial to say, Bottas is a quick one lap qualifier. Lewis is the only team mate in his career to consistently out qualify him, we've also all seen those monumental laps he's put in when he does best Lewis. The trouble is Lewis, like all the greats, has a way of making good drivers look average, and I feel that is what is happening with Bottas.

He's started 2019 really well, like he did 2018, and that's to be commended. My worry is this, after 3 races and Bottas putting in at times what looks like a monumental effort who is leading the WDC right now? Bottas had no answer to Lewis in Bahrain, and here in China Lewis' pace when he needed it was actually 1 second a lap quicker in the race. Bottas wasn't slower, his pace was consistent, Lewis just had other gears to go to. Bottas needs to maintain this level, and hope Lewis doesn't hit his stride, or is hit with mechanical gremlins like he was in 2016, to beat Lewis.

So does he deserve that drive? On current form it is hard to argue he doesn't. He brings points into the team and is a good consistent points scorer, and on the rate off weekends for Lewis you can rely on him to deliver something for the team. He apparently likes a similar car to Lewis, so that helps the team deliver a razor sharp focused car, that in turn allows Lewis to deliver, and the two of them to work on race set up together every weekend. That shouldn't be down played. Are there other drivers on the grid who'd be better than him at that? I'm not sure, but that does mean you're picking him for that seat as NeilP says as a wingman. That's a valid decision, but given that we have maybe four seats in F1 right now capable of giving someone a WDC and Ferrari have already decided it's only one of their cars that'll get a shot, Mercedes having effectively chosen a wingman does reduce that number by 1 yet again.

Which, if Mercedes are heading back towards dominant cars... no. Hell no. He isn't, in my opinion, capable of maintaing this level throughout a season, in one off races sure, but consistently in 21 of them? No. Rosberg was, and did, and 3 seasons out of 4 still came up short against Lewis. So if Mercedes are back in all conquering territory again (still not sure they are, but there are signs) then I'd want a driver in the other car capable of challenging Lewis consistently, not a wingman who is able to help Lewis shine.

So the question is then who of the available options would do that? Ocon? Not sure right now, he is quick, no question, he's also shown very decent race craft, he can stick a move on someone and is capable of surprising a car in front by making a pass where nobody expects one. That move a few seasons back on Hulkenberg in Spa was cheeky as hell. I think Mercedes need to get him in a car, whether it's a Merc is debatable, but why not? We've seen what Bottas can do, why not give the kid a chance?

However, I think the real options that would push Lewis would be Max Verstappen and Danny Ricciardo. Trouble is Danny is at Renault, and has yet to prove he can take on the Hulk. If he doesn't beat Hulkenberg comfortably this season I think it'll tarnish his reputation and scupper any chance of a move to the big teams. Max on the other hand has a performance release clause, and would cause Lewis all sorts of problems...

But here's the thing, if we're looking at the options right now, and we're saying only Max and Danny for sure are ahead of Bottas, and maybe Ocon, well, doesn't that say a lot for Bottas? Much will depend on how things shape up by the summer break. If the Merc is dominant and Bottas can challenge, great. If he can't? Get shot of him. If it isn't dominant then it's a tough one. Is Bottas' good enough in that scenario for the team? Yeah, probably. But does he have the possibility of being the future of the team? No. In that scenario Ocon or maybe Russell become the wiser choice for Mercedes.
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#48

Interesting points Jody.

However, I don't think Bottas considers himslef a wingman. He has come out this season all guns blazing and intending to win the WDC. I'm hoping the first three races are just an anomaly and we get a proper contest between teams this year, but if we don't then I think Bottas is going to give his all to challenge Lewis. Also, unlike Ferrari, I don't think Mercedes will impose team orders unless the championships are at risk. If there are only silver cars in the race then I reckon Toto will let them race until the end.

I can't see Bottas doing it if it ends up a two horse race, but I'm sure he'll not be stopped from trying.
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#49

Emo beardy Bottas talks the talk... I'm just not sure he'll be able to walk the walk Morini. I hope he does, I like you genuinely like the bloke, he seems like a nice guy, and I just think he's one of the good guys. I would like nothing more than to see him maintain a title challenge throughout the year, but if it is a straight shoot out between Lewis and Bottas I don't think many would back Bottas to come out on top.

If it is a multi-team battle with either Ferrari (still the most likely challengers) or Red Bull, or maybe both, getting involved then you have to say that Mercedes will swing behind Lewis, whether consciously or not. He's the one who is most likely at this stage, and given his pedigree he's the most likely to be the lead driver at Mercedes in terms of results if decision needs to be taken.

If it is an all Mercedes affair this year and Bottas doesn't win he'll be gone. If it is a multi-team battle and he performs well and consistently scores points for the team and backs Lewis up then he has a shot of retaining his seat. Whether or not he sees himself as a wingman is irrelevant, I think that's how Mercedes see him now, especially after last year. He needs to work hard to change that perception.

PS. As an aside to all that above, if it is a multi-team battle, and he does end up backing up Hamilton to another WDC I would expect Mercedes to still replace him with Ocon or Russell. Why? Because Lewis is getting older and has this season and next on his contract, Mercedes need to start their succession planning, and Bottas won't be part of that. Honestly? To retain his seat I think he'll need to win the WDC.
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#50

Interesting view on the benefits gained by poaching a faster drivers performance engineer Wink

https://www.crash.net/f1/feature/920193/...ted-bottas
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