No1 No2 and team orders
#21

Mercedes didn’t have any choice but allow Lewis and Nico to race. They were so far clear of the rest that favouring one over the other would be akin to fixing the championship.


Purple Banana (a.k.a John or JB  Smile )
"The flowers of victory belong in many vases." - Michael Schumacher
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#22

Plus a complete borefest
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#23

Welllll... I beg to differ Purple-banana, they could have called a few races off if they'd wanted too. Obviously I don't think either would have listened, but other teams in the past who have been dominant did that. But OK, I get you have a complete downer on Mercedes.

LotusLover, and believe it or not I can get why people thought it was a borefest, bar the odd good race, and incident it wasn't really Prost vs Senna now was it? But I don't really get what that has to do with my comment? Or were you just being snarky again? Wink
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#24

Not snarky was replying to PB but didn’t quote!! Ooooops

(03-09-2018, 10:25 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Welllll... I beg to differ Purple-banana, they could have called a few races off if they'd wanted too. Obviously I don't think either would have listened, but other teams in the past who have been dominant did that. But OK, I get you have a complete downer on Mercedes.

LotusLover, and believe it or not I can get why people thought it was a borefest, bar the odd good race, and incident it wasn't really Prost vs Senna now was it? But I don't really get what that has to do with my comment? Or were you just being snarky again? Wink

What do you mean again? You cheeky sod
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#25

I don't have a problem with Mercedes, Jody. They have done the better job in the hybrid era and I have repeatedly conceded such, despite my allegiance to their main rival. But the numbers don't lie and Mercedes enjoyed (earned!) a period of dominance between 2014-16 far in excess of that of Ferrari in the early 2000's and RBR in the early 2010's.


Purple Banana (a.k.a John or JB  Smile )
"The flowers of victory belong in many vases." - Michael Schumacher
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#26

Agree PB on the dominance front certainly 2015 where the deltas were as big in gap as the Senna Prost McLaren days, But 2014 and 2016 the deltas were comparable to both RBR's dominance with Vettel and Ferrari's dominance with Schumacher. I genuinely think there are two reasons why the stats look better in 14 and 16 for Mercedes than they did for Ferrari and Red Bull... Hamilton and Rosberg. Not wanting to get into a discussion about whether or not Hamilton is the GOAT, so let's just say that Vettel, Schumacher and Hamilton are comparable, OK? But, and here's the kicker, do you think Eddie Irvine, Rubens Barrichello and Mark Webber were as good as Rosberg? Because I don't. I know a lot of Hamilton fans don't rate Rosberg, but I ALWAYS did. His one lap pace has always been phenomenal and he was genuinely one of the most technically gifted drivers of his generation. I actually think skill wise Rosberg is as good as Vettel, and I think that is the reason the stats look so good for Mercedes. There's also possibly reliability, during the early 00's the engines were very highly strung, and the gearboxes seemingly made of tin foil. So there were way more mechanical DNFs. On an aside, the Ferrari that Schumacher had truly was dominant, I mean, in 1999 he'd have walked that championship had he not broken his leg in Silverstone. Christ, Irvine nearly won it, and had there not been team orders in France he would of, and that's a mark of what a great job Ferrari did with that series of cars.
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#27

Dont include me in that group, I think Rosberg was a very talented technician (Prost like in my eyes - and no I am NOT saying he was as good as Prost) and I say it all the time you can bet Hamilton learned things from him for sure. His battles with Rosberg have only improved his abilities.

I get the feelings from people about the domination of Mercedes but credit where its due as you two guys have stated they earned it. It will be interesting to see who the next dominant race car will be from the new regulations. My money is on Ferrari!
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#28

I'm in entire agreement that Rosberg>Webber/Barrichello/Irvine, but to me that just cements why Mercedes couldn't use team orders even if they had wanted to. At Ferrari and to a lesser extent Red Bull, there was always such a gulf in performance between their no1 and no2, that even if there were no team orders, those no1 drivers would inevitably end up ahead more often than not. Team orders could merely be a method of preventing a crash.

Mercedes with LH/NR were different, the skill-delta between Lewis and Nico was much closer, arguably swinging from one to the other on a weekly basis!

Now, there is that gulf in performance again, this time between Lewis & Bottas, plus their main rival has caught up and guess what, team orders are being used!


Purple Banana (a.k.a John or JB  Smile )
"The flowers of victory belong in many vases." - Michael Schumacher
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#29

I'm not arguing that Mercedes wouldn't have been stupid to use team orders, they absolutely would have been. It'd have also been utterly indefensible given the nature of the competition at the time... but it was still a choice to let them race.

However, I think you can see that the argument for Mercs dominance isn't just car related. I genuinely do believe that say if Mercedes had had Hamilton or Rosberg as one driver and paired either of them with say a Perez or Vandorne or yes, Bottas then the figures wouldn't look as good.
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#30

Agree entirely!


Purple Banana (a.k.a John or JB  Smile )
"The flowers of victory belong in many vases." - Michael Schumacher
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