No1 No2 and team orders
#11

(02-09-2018, 04:38 PM)morini Wrote:  In an ideal world I agree with you. However, once you get past a certain point in the season and it becomes obvious there is one driver in realistic conterntion then you can't blame the teams for maximising the chances of the driver who's fighting the championship. It is so tight this year it will be the difference between winning and losing.

I honestly beleive Mercedes gave Bottas and Hamilton equal treatment up until the point Hamilton had significantly gapped him. Ferrari, on the other hand, seem to back a lead driver from day 1.

I don't like it either, but I am realistic about it.

Its just that that 'certain point' seems to be at the discretion of Merc fans, if its allowed its allowed, doesn't matter when you employ those tactics. 

If however you have a dislike of the principle, then again, it doesn't matter when it happens, its bad. Cant pick and chose where rules are concerned I'm afraid.  Tongue
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#12

I am not saying it was anything over the top, but it could have ended up badly for LH, and i have no doubt whos fault it would have been then. All i want to see is some genuine impartiality, not to much to ask.

F1 - No it is not, but I would also say this with absolutely no malice, no agenda, look in the mirror you clearly dislike Hamilton and Mercedes are you that equal you crave of others. Yes the Sky guys including a person who really had an agenda against Hamilton in Rosberg were universal in their agreement about the Vettel and Hamilton coming together. Are they independent, yes they are.

As regards your point about Hamilton needing to be careful in fact it was and remains Vettel who needs to be more cautious of the two he was behind and is further behind in the point standings and he is the one who cannot afford a DNF, this is a point I raised earlier this week (believe it or not).

I think you will find as more reports and comments come out about the race the majority will blame Vettel not Hamilton for the coming together.

Want to emphasize No malice in my comments towards you just some circumspection.
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#13

Right I’ve had it Morini or Monster please chop and edit as seen fit thanks
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#14

(02-09-2018, 05:47 PM)NeilP Wrote:  I am not saying it was anything over the top, but it could have ended up badly for LH, and i have no doubt whos fault it would have been then. All i want to see is some genuine impartiality, not to much to ask.

F1 - No it is not, but I would also say this with absolutely no malice, no agenda, look in the mirror you clearly dislike Hamilton and Mercedes are you that equal you crave of others. Yes the Sky guys including a person who really had an agenda against Hamilton in Rosberg were universal in their agreement about the Vettel and Hamilton coming together. Are they independent, yes they are.

As regards your point about  Hamilton needing to be careful in fact it was and remains Vettel who needs to be more cautious of the two he was behind and is further behind in the point standings and he is the one who cannot afford a DNF, this is a point I raised earlier this week (believe it or not).

I think you will find as more reports and comments come out about the race the majority will blame Vettel not Hamilton for the coming together.

Want to emphasize No malice in my comments towards you just some circumspection.
 No malice taken, its about opinions. When you look for more comments and reports, please dont just look at the British media, you maybe surprised!

Its not that I dislike LH or Merc, I do hate the lack of impartiality and the way Ferrari are talked about and viewed by most in the uk.

Let me give you an example, SV and Ferrari get stick when SV (at Silverstone) says 'we beat them at  their home', when Merc team does a formation today aunder the instruction of the team and says 'lets show those Italians' no stick, no comment, no repeat.

Oh and another example, why is it that as soon as Ferrari find an edge, the call of 'Cheat' suddenly appear, Merc have had an advantage for at least four years, where have those calls been?  Is that impartiality?
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#15

I have not seen anyone call Ferrari cheats, or at least not from what I would call a credible source. As regards Mercedes formation, I agree with you in my book that is classless, they did the same last year. I mean its not a hangable offence but its not good sportsmanship. I would think it was done to counter the outright hostility of the Ferrari fans.

You know good call I will over the next few days look at some European sports papers and see what they say about the incident. From my own perspective and limited knowledge I would simply say this Hamilton was ahead, Hamilton left a cars width, Vettel hit Hamilton
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#16

(02-09-2018, 06:52 PM)NeilP Wrote:  I have not seen anyone call Ferrari cheats, or at least not from what I would call a credible source. As regards Mercedes  formation, I agree with you in my book that is classless, they did the same last year. I mean its not a hangable offence but its not good sportsmanship. I would think it was done to counter the outright hostility of the Ferrari fans.

You know good call I will over the next few days look at some European sports papers and see what they say about the incident. From my own perspective and limited knowledge I would simply say this Hamilton was ahead, Hamilton left a cars width, Vettel hit Hamilton

I'd say there was a degree of outright hostility from the Fans in Silverstone as well, just for some balance. Ferrari didn't see the need to do it, credit where credit due, no?

So Merc arent credible, they have implied and said as much, just another example of being unsporting, as I say, lets treat them all the same, is not that difficult is it?  Smile
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#17

Purple-Bannana that's not totally fair on either Lewis or Seb. Lewis HAS moved over to help team mates in the past, played that role a few times for Button in particular. Didn't like it, but he did it, and last year in Hungary he let Bottas back past him. Seb too has been willing to play the team game, sure we remember Multi-21 but he has at times towed team orders. He did so for qualifying in Monza for starters.

As to team orders? Don't like them, but understand them. Last year Ferrari picked Seb as No1 from race one and never switched it up. They appeared to do the same this year by giving Seb preferential strategy a number of times early on in the season and got really stung by the criticism because at that time Mercedes were seemingly letting their guys race. I think Toto made the call to back Lewis after his drive in Germany. Those are my thoughts, Ferrari strangely have made the call too, but are not wanting to seem like they have publicly, plus they need to be careful with Kimi. He's clearly aggrieved over many calls that have cost him race wins while pairing with Seb, and with his contract up, and Leclerc possibly taking his seat, would Kimi move over for Seb if he had a race win in his sights? I'm sure he would, but Ferrari need to play it safe with Kimi. It's one of the reasons many of us thought Leclerc might replace Kimi as soon as Spa. Leclerc being out of the championship would clearly be expected to play the dutiful number 2 driver, and I think he would.

Any way, do I like it? No. But it has been part of the sport since day 1. There are ways to do it, and there are ways not to do it. I think letting drivers fight from day 1 of the season is the right call, but when it become clear one is doing a better job than the other? Well, I guess then it's understandable to want to back your more likely winner.

I still bet Ferrari had done that in 1999 with Eddie Irvine, who had been ordered to let the quicker Schumacher through in France and somewhere else, when it was clear Irvine was more than quick enough. Schumi broke his leg at Silverstone and Eddie just missed out on the title. So with hindsight those were the wrong calls.
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#18

Moved some off topic pointlessness elsewhere.
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#19

I don't mind a nr. 1 and nr. 2 driver. It is a team and like the name says, it's a team effort. Therefor there is a driver ánd a constructor championship.
Altough sometimes it can be annoying when a battle between teammates is put down by orders (or even between different teams but with the same owner, like Red Bull vs Torro Rosso), it also gives a extra tactical element; like in qualifying, or during race (Bottas and Hamilton fighting Raikkonen last race).

Even if it was not allowed, you can not stop it. They just would hide it better.
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#20

Antilochos that's exactly what teams did. Red Bulls famous "your rear tyre temps are high" calls during Vettel / Webber era were very badly coded, and if Webber didn't respond he'd get the "tyre temps are critical now Mark". You can't tell me that wasn't coded team orders. They were all at it though, Ferrari, McLaren, everyone. It's why I admired the way Mercedes let Hamilton and Rosberg race. However, when things have got tight, I think from Germany onwards they've made the call to back Hamilton. Don't think Bottas would've got Lewis in Germany, but the call over the radio was very telling.
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