[PapaofGags]

Anyone think Red Bull have any interest in Hulkenberg. 

Hi Neil, cant see it myself, think they will stay with Gasly & Kvyat, starting to worry it might be Williams now as Ferrari have given their backing to Giovinazzi, still great yardstick for George.

Time will tell 

[forzaferrari]

Anyone think Red Bull have any interest in Hulkenberg. 

Nico Hülkenberg admits that Red Bull is still "a dream" for him. Even if he has been rejected by Helmut Marko until now.

Nico: "I talked to Dr. Marko all August. At some point he said, 'Don't call me anymore!'"

[Jody Barton]

Apparently Max and his management team are pushing very hard to get Hulkenberg in the other car, but right now Albon is beating him this second half of the season. He needs to get his head in order, this weekend and a few others since the summer break have been brain farts for him. Although I gave to say from his perspective Hulkenberg might be a better partner, because he's clearly missing Ricciardo's data.

[morini]

because he's clearly missing Ricciardo's data.

So maybe Max is not actually the complete article we all thought he was? He's been in F1 for many years now so should be able to develop a car as good as the next guy. Button questioned Hamiltons ability to set up a car when Lewis was quite new to the scene, That turned out to be bullshit as we all now know, but I do think that even though Max is one of the best racers out there he does have big questionmakrks hanging over him.

1. He doesn't set the world alight over 1 lap in qualy. DR was definately a much better qualifier.
2. He's been outperformed in the second half of 2019 by a very inexperienced team mate.

Personally, I think LeClerc is the more likely WDC in waiting at this point in time. I'd say he is outright faster too.

[NeilP]

I will not say Max has not progressed as a driver because he has but today he showed yet again his judgement and temperament is suspect at best. Today he mixed it with the big boys and came off worse by trying to barge his way through. He has the talent to win with his driving skills as a Dodgem driver he will lose as many as he wins.

I feel bad for Hulkenberg he absolutely deserves a drive in a decent car but come on Albon has done more than enough already to stay at Red Bull. This "I want Hulkenberg in the team" smacks of someone being frightened of his team mate.

Good race today I enjoyed the differing strategies but for my money Ferrari blew it. I dont know what is going on but Leclerc has had the short end of so many decisions this year it is as if Ferrari are protecting Vettel from him. Who knows!

[Jody Barton]

Morini, I really don't think I could ever be accused of claiming Max is or was the complete package. I've continually pointed out that if you take out mechanical issues between the two that Ricciardo out qualified him, and out races him. I still think his defending of positions is little league at times as well and have said so. I think for anyone who has been keeping up with the sport we can now add car set up as one of his weaknesses too. He misses Ricciardo's input, and so do RBR if you ask me, that car has not developed anywhere near as quickly as it has in the past. As for Max being out performed by Albon, yeah, he has been, and that tells you more about Max than Alex I think. Alex has out performed him by simply driving like a professional, not an idiot, in Japan Max was unlucky, but elsewhere? He's got himself in scrapes again hasn't he?

As to Leclerc... yeah, he does right now look the more likely of the two to win a WDC, but that's probably more courtesy of the car he's in. He's not exactly free of errors or the complete package either. He clearly can't set a car up too, and I do wonder if it was say Giovinazzi alongside him whether that Ferrari would develop as quickly and be set up as nicely. We shouldn't downplay the same impact of Vettel on either that car, or Leclerc's performances.

NeilP I honestly don't think Max is scared of anyone, least of all Alex Albon. Sorry, but I just think that's a bit of a silly comment. Max is the better driver, no question, he's also far to impulsive and rash, but over a season Alex won't get close to him. I happen to think the reason the Max camp want the Hulk in the other car is because if his experience and his knowledge setting up the car. It's plain as the nose on my face that Max is missing the input from Danny Tix, and Albon is apparently constantly asking for Max's data / set up... soooo... yeah, if no data's going back the other way then I can see why Max wouldn't want him in the car.

Back to Hulkenberg for a second though if I could, many have said he "deserves" a drive in a top car for as long as I can remember. Maybe he does. However, he's had a top driver benchmark in the other car for me this season... and he's been smashed. He was the established driver and Ricciardo has come into that team and made Nico his bitch. So does he really deserve a drive in a top team? I don't think so. Does he deserve a drive in F1? Well, with a grid that contains Stroll, Grosjean, Magnussen and Giovinazzi my argument would be yes. However, he has two options, RBR, which is not likely and Williams, who probably can't afford him.

[morini]

Morini, I really don't think I could ever be accused of claiming Max is or was the complete package. I've continually pointed out that if you take out mechanical issues between the two that Ricciardo out qualified him, and out races him.

Yeah, sorry if it came across like I was pitching you as a one eyed Max champion and i know you've questioned his performances in the past. I didn't mean it like that and was more referring to the huge media hype behind him. I'm not against a bit of hype myself, but only if there are results to back it up. I rate Max as one of the best out there at the moment (an race day), but his results do not warrant the bullshit that the media spout about him being the fastest ever. The pundits just believe what Jos, Marko and Horner say about the guy. Look at it this way, He's been in F1 a long time now and he is still the same age as Hamilton was when he first came in to F1. He is massively experienced by comparison but his one lap record is piss poor.

As to Leclerc... yeah, he does right now look the more likely of the two to win a WDC, but that's probably more courtesy of the car he's in. He's not exactly free of errors or the complete package either. He clearly can't set a car up too, and I do wonder if it was say Giovinazzi alongside him whether that Ferrari would develop as quickly and be set up as nicely. We shouldn't downplay the same impact of Vettel on either that car, or Leclerc's performances.

I'm not sure about the set up comments TBH. He certainly has shown that he struggles on Sundays compared to Saturdays so you may well have a point. I guess that will come with time and the right guidance from the team. The difference between what I see in CLC compared to Max is more about outperforming the car. Charles has made me sit up and take notice with a few "where the hell did that lap time come from" moments. Max hasn't really done that IMO (apart from maybe Singapore in 2018). I've said it before and I will repeat it - I don't think Max Verstappen is a particularly good qualifier. I also reckon Carlos Sainz would get the better of him over a season. Sainz is probably the most under rated driver on the grid.

These are just opinions and should be taken as such(not wanting to upset any Max fans). Just trying to explain why I don't think MV has yet earned the hype.

[Jody Barton]

Max definitely has "earned" all of his hype. He's quick, he's a brave a bold over taker, if clumsy and impetuous. I see just as many faults in CLC to be honest. In race trim I'd pick Max over him, but in quali trim I'd pick CLC every time. Neither are the finished article, and I fear both need a lot more experience. I too think Sainz is under rated, I said at the time RBR promoted the wrong driver, I think we'll get to judge how good Ocon is too soon.

[morini]

Max definitely has "earned" all of his hype. 

Yep, ok, we'll have to agree to differ on that one then. I don't swallow the Max hype for reasons I've already given.

[Jody Barton]

No we won't it was an autocorrect mistake on my phone, should read *hasn't earned all the hype, given what I've said in the past and this thread the mistake should have been clear.