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`Gasley V Hartley
#11
(19-11-2017, 04:13 PM)Antilochos Wrote: I think Saintz is good, but certainly not that good (otherwise the other top teams would of snatched him away in stead of a complex deal with Renault).
So far, I think Vettel is still their best product, but Verstappen will surpass Vettel as a talent next year for sure (results is a different thing). Then there is Ricciardo who I also believe is better then Saintz, with the latter as a number 4 in that program. But that's my personal view.

1. Vettel / Verstappen
2. Verstappen / Vettel
3. Ricciardo
4. Saintz
5. Kvyat
6. Etc.

Interesting perspective. Personally I've never rated Vettel and I'd put him behind Vertsappen, Ricciardio and Sainz in all round driving ability. He has a great WDC track record in a planted car but it has to be on rails for him to get the most out of it (that RB in the blown diffuser era cornered like a scaletrix car, the competition wasn't even close). The very best drivers can maximise a badly balanced car but Vettel can't cope with that. His season against Dan Ricc was actually pretty embarrassing to witness.

My order would be

1. Verstappen
2. Dan Ric / Carlos Sainz
3. Vettel
4. Kvyat (maybe, don't much rate him either to be honest)
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#12
@Morini I can understand you putting Max, Ricciardo and maybe even Sainz above Vettel, but not rating the chap? That I think is a bit harsh. At times this season he has driven exceptionally well, and he is a 4 time WDC, and no matter what anyone says you don’t become a 4 time WDC if you’re a chump. I can understand people still not rating him in wheel to wheel combat, because this year he’s been schooled multiple times by the likes of Lewis and Max, but honestly I think that’s more credit to those guys than to the detriment of Seb, he might not be as good as the best in CQC, say like Alonso, Ricciardo, Max or Lewis, but he’s not bad, and surely no one can deny he’s a bloomin’ quick driver? Any way, from the RBR young driver program I’d still put Seb top, Danny Ric and Max joint second, maybe leaning towards Max, and then Sainz close behind. Kvyat has always been accident prone, even in junior Formula, quick on an empty track, crash test dummy on a full one. Still not sure about Gasly, but I’ll admit he’s impressed me since climbing into the Toro Rosso.
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#13
@Jody, I'll concede Vettel can be quick on his day, but he reminds me of Button in that when the cars not suiting him he's nowhere. That simply isn't a sign of a great in my opinion. Also, I'm not convinced of his wet weather abilities either. Vettel wouldn't be anywhere near my top 5, his season against Dan Ric (in a car he didn't much like) is what exposed him for me. In fact, I believe Nico Rosberg, underrated by many, is just as good as Vettel.

Plus "the finger" antics did him no favours in my eyes. It was getting tedious during the EBD era.
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#14
@Morini I agree with you on his wet weather abilities. To me there are 3 drivers on the current grid who are exceptional wet weather drivers, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and of course young Max Verstappen. I too think Nico is underrated by many, he had a good record in the lower formula driving against the likes of Hamilton and Kubica (amongst others), but I personally think Vettel is a damn fine driver, maybe not the best racer, but a damn fine driver. The season against Danny Ric exposed how mentally fragile he is more than anything, things were tough, he was unhappy with RBR and wanted out and he fell apart under a little pressure. Other fine drivers have been mentally fragile.
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