[Jody Barton]

I hate Crofty, the utter bollocks that man comes out with is staggering. The amount of times he says something bloody stupid, or patently BS and you hear dead air as Martin Brundle bites his tongue is far too numerous. How, or why he still has a job is beyond me.

[LotusLover]

I don't listen to them tits anymore, I only put on the race sick of the shite F1 debacle. Ted is about the only informative thing on there but he is a tit too

I've had that opinion of the Sky team as well (for a long time). Ant Davidson is the only one worth listening to, in my opinion (PDR is ok too). Really annoying given they have a monopoly and we have to pay through the nose to watch F1. On more than 1 occasion I've watched the pictures through Sky and listened to commentary on R5. Usually I just grit my teeth and suffer the Sky commentary as well.

Croft should be put out to pasture. He's the most annoying of the lot of them.

Well I watch through a sub that has all channels sports wise and every channel I think known to earth. I am not paying for their piss poor show that drives me nuts that's why BBC was great Anthem straight on the grid bosch done, pub or sleep lol

[Beano]

So having received quite some flack for siding with LM on changing up the format I noticed a few comments berating LM at attempts to spice up F1 so did a bit of research into F1s predecessor the one and only Bernie. 

I’ve laid an older article but I think it’s worth reminding ourselves how we got to this mess of a show currently. It makes for interesting reading and leaves a sour taste also. 

Whilst LM maybe be US they might actually be trying to save the whole show. Because Bernie and CVC literally sucked it dry! 

It’s not new news but it’s insightful and I think Neil you’ll find it interesting if you didn’t already know??

Yes we all know the original format was to produce a winning car and lead and win but I feel
We need to trial (at the very least) because that aside from the paywalls F1 has lost millions of viewers due to many reasons, do we really blame LM for the current state? If you do I suggest digging a little deeper. I especially took note of the state of the European part of the gig and we all know how precarious that is!!

Note: I am not saying a change of race format is the answer but you must understand why changing things is imperative regardless of methods.

Enjoy your day gents.

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2...ugby-union

[Antilochos]

Kudos for doing your research and digging deeper Beano.

Let me start of with a basic point in this that I believe is very important; I don't mind changes. In fact, I like changes and even the changes of things I love. Nothing is forever like I said in the Williams thread about loosing the Williams name. Because all the nostalgic things we love so much, they once started as new. After a period of time, it should stop and something new (and maybe worse, maybe even more beautiful) will see the light of day. Like your childhood. I have precious memories about it, loved it, but certainly would not be stuck being a child for the rest of my life. Every new period in my life has his own characteristics and values.

Therefor, I don't mind LM taking over ownership of F1, don't mind and even appreciate the effort they put in to change certain aspects of the sport, trying to make it better. I might have missed the flack you got for siding with LM (although I enjoy watching the regular clashes between two certain members on this forum, I don't read all), but on that you are not alone.
For example; the recent changing of tyre pressure to mix up the two Silverstone races was great. Bernie hated social media, just like I do, but I still admit that it is necessary for the sport to survive in the future. The point for fastest lap during race, I think it adds something extra. Voting for driver of the day, I don't care much about it but understand this helps a lot of people getting more involved. And the qualifying modes we know today are quite different from the old days but they are in my opinion way better. Not sure if this is LM who changed it (thought this was still in the Bernie era), but the point I trying to make of changing things stands. So are more examples of change to think that elevates the sport further.

But (there is the but), I don't believe every change is per definition a good thing. I do believe that certain aspects should be kept as the soul of the sport. The essence of F1 should be guarded or they should be be bold enough to stop calling it F1. What makes that essence is hard to tell and some points are not facts but feelings, but that is the challenge for LM to find out.
A thing were you Beano certainly stand alone in on this forum is the reverse grid. To me, that is essential part of the sport. It is silly to let the fastest car start behind as a rule (how do you even know the cars are not sandbagging? You certainly know the good format of the Saturday is over), maybe even unnecessary dangerous. There are more roads to Rome and not all are equally good (on the other hand, I do enjoy it when a top driver needs to start behind and fights his way up, but only if he starts behind because of penalty, engine failure, etc, not just for being fast).
Some things I don't appreciate is the "Americanisation" of the sport. Don't even know if that is a real word, but I am sure everybody here knows what I mean with that. We all love some drama's in the sport, but don't come over to F1 with that phoney, flashy, almost infantile drama like crap. I feel insulted. I hate the whole superhero theme that seems so popular with movies and I don't want to see the F1 drivers walking around in red capes (in a manner of speak). Also the growing political correctness is starting to irritate me now because it all is becoming to much (started with releasing the pit girls, still think that is such a childish move, but it feels like it is getting worse and worse and yes Morini, I do blame Hamilton as well for his over the top actions; I have no time for that crap).

So it might seem like a thin line to walk for LM, they took up that glove and need to do it now. I really hope they succeed and think they can, but also I have a little fear that they can go to far. The future will tell.

[morini]

although I enjoy watching the regular clashes between two certain members on this forum

You might be dissapointed on that front going forwards. The member you refer to, his posts don't appear on my view of the board any more. Didn't think I would ever need to use that "feature", but needs must and it makes life more tolerable. Well, for me at least.

[Beano]

Kudos for doing your research and digging deeper Beano.

Let me start of with a basic point in this that I believe is very important; I don't mind changes. In fact, I like changes and even the changes of things I love. Nothing is forever like I said in the Williams thread about loosing the Williams name. Because all the nostalgic things we love so much, they once started as new. After a period of time, it should stop and something new (and maybe worse, maybe even more beautiful) will see the light of day. Like your childhood. I have precious memories about it, loved it, but certainly would not be stuck being a child for the rest of my life. Every new period in my life has his own characteristics and values.

Therefor, I don't mind LM taking over ownership of F1, don't mind and even appreciate the effort they put in to change certain aspects of the sport, trying to make it better. I might have missed the flack you got for siding with LM (although I enjoy watching the regular clashes between two certain members on this forum, I don't read all), but on that you are not alone.
For example; the recent changing of tyre pressure to mix up the two Silverstone races was great. Bernie hated social media, just like I do, but I still admit that it is necessary for the sport to survive in the future. The point for fastest lap during race, I think it adds something extra. Voting for driver of the day, I don't care much about it but understand this helps a lot of people getting more involved. And the qualifying modes we know today are quite different from the old days but they are in my opinion way better. Not sure if this is LM who changed it (thought this was still in the Bernie era), but the point I trying to make of changing things stands. So are more examples of change to think that elevates the sport further.

But (there is the but), I don't believe every change is per definition a good thing. I do believe that certain aspects should be kept as the soul of the sport.  The essence of F1 should be guarded or they should be be bold enough to stop calling it F1. What makes that essence is hard to tell and some points are not facts but feelings, but that is the challenge for LM to find out.
A thing were you Beano certainly stand alone in on this forum is the reverse grid. To me, that is essential part of the sport. It is silly to let the fastest car start behind as a rule (how do you even know the cars are not sandbagging? You certainly know the good format of the Saturday is over), maybe even unnecessary dangerous. There are more roads to Rome and not all are equally good (on the other hand, I do enjoy it when a top driver needs to start behind and fights his way up, but only if he starts behind because of penalty, engine failure, etc, not just for being fast).
Some things I don't appreciate is the "Americanisation" of the sport. Don't even know if that is a real word, but I am sure everybody here knows what I mean with that. We all love some drama's in the sport, but don't come over to F1 with that phoney, flashy, almost infantile drama like crap. I feel insulted. I hate the whole superhero theme that seems so popular with movies and I don't want to see the F1 drivers walking around in red capes (in a manner of speak). Also the growing political correctness is starting to irritate me now because it all is becoming to much (started with releasing the pit girls, still think that is such a childish move, but it feels like it is getting worse and worse and yes Morini, I do blame Hamilton as well for his over the top actions; I have no time for that crap).

So it might seem like a thin line to walk for LM, they took up that glove and need to do it now. I really hope they succeed and think they can, but also I have a little fear that they can go to far. The future will tell.

Anti

Thanks for the response, great reply actually plenty to discuss.

The only reason I really posted the old article is because I wasn't wholly aware myself of the "bigger picture" and that was the financial life sucked out of the sport and the venues that accommodate it. The reverse grid yeah I totally get the "against" and as I've said to others that's not for me to sway but I do believe it will run as a trial at the very least at some stage. What I would say is although its a "gimmick" essentially it doesn't change the fact we still have a "main event" on Sunday, and that is where I am in agreement with Ross Brawn that it will mix things up ie teams thinking about race set ups etc etc. but hey that for me to ponder and see if it works out. As for LM I am currently of the opinion they picked up the mantle (at some serious cost) and need to own that and move forward.

Not everyone will agree whether they do it correctly or not. After seeing what Bernie did along with CVC that to me is where the bigger picture lies, F1 cannot continue to on its current path, We will lose Silverstone along with other tracks due to financial struggles etc I can actually see the show moving more to the East maybe that is where its destined to go but that would be a shame as its origins lie in the West and still I believe where the fan base heart is. 

Hey we can only sit and continue to pay to watch (that won't go away) and hope LM can lead F1 in to a new bright future. Not a great start for them with COVID (they must really be rueing their timing).

All I wanted to really highlight is actually the "good ol days" were not really that (not even old by motor racing standards) they were in fact crippling. 


Hope that highlights the reason for the initial post.

If everyone else knew this great, if not always good to learn something new.


I just had to laugh at that last comment its so petty it really is. Anyway Anti I do get some good chat out of most here.

[Antilochos]

although I enjoy watching the regular clashes between two certain members on this forum

You might be dissapointed on that front going forwards. The member you refer to, his posts don't appear on my view of the board any more. Didn't think I would ever need to use that "feature", but needs must and it makes life more tolerable. Well, for me at least.

Well, if it works for you than that feature is doing its thing.
And I get over the disappointment, I hope...

[morini]

Well, if it works for you than that feature is doing its thing.

Actually, it's the last thing I ever wanted to use on here. Haven't needed to use filters since back in the old usenet newsgroups days where newsreader clients used to incorporate a killfile simply to make the readers experience better. Anyway, if I'm not enjoying coming here I don't have many other options. It is either that or I have to stop visiting the place completely.

[Antilochos]

Kudos for doing your research and digging deeper Beano.

Let me start of with a basic point in this that I believe is very important; I don't mind changes. In fact, I like changes and even the changes of things I love. Nothing is forever like I said in the Williams thread about loosing the Williams name. Because all the nostalgic things we love so much, they once started as new. After a period of time, it should stop and something new (and maybe worse, maybe even more beautiful) will see the light of day. Like your childhood. I have precious memories about it, loved it, but certainly would not be stuck being a child for the rest of my life. Every new period in my life has his own characteristics and values.

Therefor, I don't mind LM taking over ownership of F1, don't mind and even appreciate the effort they put in to change certain aspects of the sport, trying to make it better. I might have missed the flack you got for siding with LM (although I enjoy watching the regular clashes between two certain members on this forum, I don't read all), but on that you are not alone.
For example; the recent changing of tyre pressure to mix up the two Silverstone races was great. Bernie hated social media, just like I do, but I still admit that it is necessary for the sport to survive in the future. The point for fastest lap during race, I think it adds something extra. Voting for driver of the day, I don't care much about it but understand this helps a lot of people getting more involved. And the qualifying modes we know today are quite different from the old days but they are in my opinion way better. Not sure if this is LM who changed it (thought this was still in the Bernie era), but the point I trying to make of changing things stands. So are more examples of change to think that elevates the sport further.

But (there is the but), I don't believe every change is per definition a good thing. I do believe that certain aspects should be kept as the soul of the sport.  The essence of F1 should be guarded or they should be be bold enough to stop calling it F1. What makes that essence is hard to tell and some points are not facts but feelings, but that is the challenge for LM to find out.
A thing were you Beano certainly stand alone in on this forum is the reverse grid. To me, that is essential part of the sport. It is silly to let the fastest car start behind as a rule (how do you even know the cars are not sandbagging? You certainly know the good format of the Saturday is over), maybe even unnecessary dangerous. There are more roads to Rome and not all are equally good (on the other hand, I do enjoy it when a top driver needs to start behind and fights his way up, but only if he starts behind because of penalty, engine failure, etc, not just for being fast).
Some things I don't appreciate is the "Americanisation" of the sport. Don't even know if that is a real word, but I am sure everybody here knows what I mean with that. We all love some drama's in the sport, but don't come over to F1 with that phoney, flashy, almost infantile drama like crap. I feel insulted. I hate the whole superhero theme that seems so popular with movies and I don't want to see the F1 drivers walking around in red capes (in a manner of speak). Also the growing political correctness is starting to irritate me now because it all is becoming to much (started with releasing the pit girls, still think that is such a childish move, but it feels like it is getting worse and worse and yes Morini, I do blame Hamilton as well for his over the top actions; I have no time for that crap).

So it might seem like a thin line to walk for LM, they took up that glove and need to do it now. I really hope they succeed and think they can, but also I have a little fear that they can go to far. The future will tell.

Anti

Thanks for the response, great reply actually plenty to discuss.

The only reason I really posted the old article is because I wasn't wholly aware myself of the "bigger picture" and that was the financial life sucked out of the sport and the venues that accommodate it. The reverse grid yeah I totally get the "against" and as I've said to others that's not for me to sway but I do believe it will run as a trial at the very least at some stage. What I would say is although its a "gimmick" essentially it doesn't change the fact we still have a "main event" on Sunday, and that is where I am in agreement with Ross Brawn that it will mix things up ie teams thinking about race set ups etc etc. but hey that for me to ponder and see if it works out. As for LM I am currently of the opinion they picked up the mantle (at some serious cost) and need to own that and move forward.

Not everyone will agree whether they do it correctly or not. After seeing what Bernie did along with CVC that to me is where the bigger picture lies, F1 cannot continue to on its current path, We will lose Silverstone along with other tracks due to financial struggles etc I can actually see the show moving more to the East maybe that is where its destined to go but that would be a shame as its origins lie in the West and still I believe where the fan base heart is. 

Hey we can only sit and continue to pay to watch (that won't go away) and hope LM can lead F1 in to a new bright future. Not a great start for them with COVID (they must really be rueing their timing).

All I wanted to really highlight is actually the "good ol days" were not really that (not even old by motor racing standards) they were in fact crippling. 


Hope that highlights the reason for the initial post.

If everyone else knew this great, if not always good to learn something new.


I just had to laugh at that last comment its so petty it really is. Anyway Anti I do get some good chat out of most here.

Yeah I went over the financial aspect of your post and it for sure is one of the, if not the most important issues for the sport right now. On one hand there are serious opportunities for LM with expanding the market, especially the US market that offers still so much to gain. I think that is also the part that convinced LM to step in F1; grow opportunities like the US market.
On the other hand, the way things are going for teams isn't right. First the costs for teams are gigantic. This needs to be reduced (and can with simple smart solutions). Then, the teams need to benefit from my point above; a growing market and therefor more sponsor money (via LM rights but more importantly via direct team sponsors). 
Then, the equality between teams. This needs to improve because how can you expact a more exciting field when the differences are as big as they are today (and I am very much against punishing the teams that do well, like Mercedes, that would kill it for me)? The budget cap, I think that is a interesting move. If it works I can't be certain (like with all things in this thread I said; my crystal ball is still not working), but I do believe it will.  And doing so, it helps again making the sport more entertaining (and helping the grow), while the need for a reverse grid seems like miles away now...

[Beano]

Yeah I went over the financial aspect of your post and it for sure is one of the, if not the most important issues for the sport right now. On one hand there are serious opportunities for LM with expanding the market, especially the US market that offers still so much to gain. I think that is also the part that convinced LM to step in F1; grow opportunities like the US market.
On the other hand, the way things are going for teams isn't right. First the costs for teams are gigantic. This needs to be reduced (and can with simple smart solutions). Then, the teams need to benefit from my point above; a growing market and therefor more sponsor money (via LM rights but more importantly via direct team sponsors). 
Then, the equality between teams. This needs to improve because how can you expact a more exciting field when the differences are as big as they are today (and I am very much against punishing the teams that do well, like Mercedes, that would kill it for me)? The budget cap, I think that is a interesting move. If it works I can't be certain (like with all things in this thread I said; my crystal ball is still not working), but I do believe it will.  And doing so, it helps again making the sport more entertaining (and helping the grow), while the need for a reverse grid seems like miles away now...

Agree especially with the highlighted. It needs change to grow and develop for ALL