Red Bull choose Honda
#21

Hollow words. Maybe if they left it would leave a gap but trust me it will be filled no team is bigger than the sport. Now if Ferrari left that is a different ball game.

The Marko led Red Bull outfit have alienated so many people I cannot believe there would be much sadness and certainly no tears in the paddock. Liberty need to get more teams into F1, personally I see that as a very, very high priority. We dont need any more engine suppliers we need teams how easy to understand is that!!!!
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#22

Honda won't give them either a WDC or WCC within two years. However, the performance of their engine this year will certainly put them in contention for certain races in 2019 and 2020 I have no doubt. The traction out of corners on the Honda is arguably only second now to Ferrari, and they seem to have half decent BHP and top speed. They're seemingly on a par now with the Renault engine in many areas, and if the rumours of the budget for next seasons engine being over $100m are true, then yeah, maybe they'll produce a damn fine engine finally... that spend also makes me think Honda are pushing for these engine regs to be extended, and the fact they are supposedly willing to spend all that money does suggest to me the FIA and LM are actually coming round to that way of thinking too... however, I don't see them quite matching either Ferrari or Mercedes power.
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#23

(04-09-2018, 10:51 AM)NeilP Wrote:  The Marko led Red Bull outfit have alienated so many people I cannot believe there would be much sadness and certainly no tears in the paddock. Liberty need to get more teams into F1, personally I see that as a very, very high priority. We dont need any more engine suppliers we need teams how easy to understand is that!!!!

I couldn't agree more, while at the same time, completely disagreeing to the exact same extent, possibly even more.

I agree, SF leaving would be a disaster, but I've often said, it won't happen, as it's in no-ones financial interests to do so, and as we all know it's all about the dollar.

And yes, I know RBR and Marko have rubbed some up the wrong way, especially being, "That drinks company" who won 4 WDC and WCC's on the trot, a lot of noses were put out of joint, but at a crucial time, they not only invested in 2 teams, but brought a new way of doing things, I'm more concerned as I've said about manufacturers like Merc and SF, trying to put a strangle hold on it, by having power over customer teams, in this resect, I like that RBR kicks back.

Totally agree "we need more teams", said it many times, but not if they are beholden to their suppliers Smile

"I Say, I say . . . . The satisfaction you have in a few minutes when you become champion. It's enough to live forever 
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#24

Fog, the more teams thing is important, but for that to happen it absolutely has to be a profitable proposition. How the hell F1 gets there is the problem. My fear is that the way it is going, the only way to get more teams, is actually to bring in more manufacturers. Just looking at your average F1 team you can see the distinct lack of sponsors. Mercedes, the 4 times WDC and WCC winners and Massive brand, with the sports most marketable asset have fewer sponsors right now than Arrows did. Let that sink in for a while.

Honestly don't know where the money would come from to actually back more privateer teams coming into the sport. I really don't. Gene Haas has pumped a lot of his own money in to get his team up and running, and he's doing the best he can, and look at the hostility he's faced for doing it. Yeah, they were dicks over FI, but I also see their side of it too. It is really hard for a new constructor to enter the sport. Plus you have Ferrari and Mercedes now saying their absolute limit for supplying teams is 3. Renault have said 2 is manageable for them and that they're happy with that, and Honda have said they only want to focus on RBR and TR. So if there was a new team, who supplies the engines?

F1 is in a pretty precarious state. The shift to mostly pay per view TV has actually proven a disaster, why? Because the viewing figure plummeted to the point that F1 is no longer the sort of product that reaches the masses in the same way it once did. Growing up watching F1 on the BBC literally everyone I knew watched it on Sunday's. You'd go round your cousins or mates house and the F1 was on if there was a race. People watched it. But pay for Sky to watch it? no way. There were never that many diehard F1 fans, there were mainly watch it because it is on fans. They need to sort that out first, they need to sort out the track day experience more, and they need to get the regulations right and the distribution of cash right. But that's not all, there are just so many things that I can see are wrong with F1 right now... hmm... maybe this needs a new thread.
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#25

I made a thread a long time ago “what is wrong with F1” that would be a good place to continue this, I like this discussion as it it very interesting

I would like to see Cosworth make a comeback they produced engines that were affordable to smaller teams I think a reason they won’t is the sheer expense of Hybrid and what is entailed, I am surprised Volkswagen don’t by enter as they are huge and that must say something that they are apprehensive in entering!! Toyota were ok I thought and BMW had a crack and were doing well with Williams for a short while? There is something fundamentally wrong when these big names don’t seem to want to touch what is classed as the pinnacle of motorsport
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#26

(04-09-2018, 11:15 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Fog . . . .

Agree with pretty much all of that Jody, and I do think LM have made some steps in the right direction, as far as they can, Like most things, this is a knock on effect from contracts made several years earlier,

but it wasn't really my point, - more than happy to have more manufacturers, all I really meant was, I don't want customer teams to become, beholden, to their supplier, and have control over driver contract decisions - for example

That said, did you see Neil's post? on the "Narky old feckers" thread, very funny, and you came off quite well, lol Smile

I'll take the Piquet comparison for myself, but apparently "The Professor" took an issue with it, haha Smile

"I Say, I say . . . . The satisfaction you have in a few minutes when you become champion. It's enough to live forever 
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#27

No Fog, what thread would that be?
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#28

Hi Jody, its in Narky old feckers section - LOL (page 3)

  & its quite brilliant!    Laughing

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#29

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138651...ople-think

Honda has made "great steps forward" and is "a lot stronger than they get credit for", according to one of Toro Rosso's Formula 1 midfield rivals Marcus Ericsson.

Pierre Gasly's two-point haul at the Belgian Grand Prix two weekends ago took Toro Rosso and Honda to 30 points, the same as McLaren scored throughout the whole of 2017 in the last of its three dismal years with Honda, as it prepares to supply the senior Red Bull team next year as well.
While Honda has kept its developments under wraps this season, it has made considerable gains in driveability since last year and introduced a combustion engine upgrade in Canada.

This has been followed up by smaller developments that have not triggered combustion engine changes or new energy recovery system components.
Sauber driver Ericsson bore the brunt of Honda's progress at Spa, where he was surprised by the straightline speed of the Toro Rossos even accounting for their DRS use.

"I was in the DRS [zone] of Gasly and I couldn't overtake him, I couldn't even get close," said Ericsson, whose Sauber did suffer from more drag at both Spa and Monza.

"I think that shows quite a lot that Honda has made great steps forward.
"I still believe Mercedes and Ferrari are the two strongest power units but then Honda is a lot stronger than they get credit for.
"That was confirmation when we were racing them."

While speed trap figures can be misleading, Honda has trimmed its top-speed deficit year-on-year.

As well as running the engines harder, Honda has also reacted to deficiencies exposed by the Azerbaijan GP earlier this season.
It has since developed its energy deployment strategy and adapted its communication between team and drivers.
This has combined to facilitate Honda's encouraging performance despite waiting to introduce a final major upgrade of 2018.

Honda also had the edge on the Renault works team in Belgium and its customer McLaren in Italy, although both had Renault's previous-spec engine.
"As a package, including the energy management, it worked well," Honda technical director Toyoharu Tanabe told Autosport.
"We are still catching up the stronger manufacturers that have an engine that's higher than us, so of course we expected difficult race weekends at high-speed circuits.

"That's why the result is very good and important for our motivation."

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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#30

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b...n/3180179/

Max Verstappen believes Red Bull now has the best car in Formula 1, judging by his strong showing in last weekend's Singapore Grand Prix.

Although the Dutchman did not have the pace to properly fight race winner Lewis Hamilton, he was able to qualify on the front row and then a better strategy helped him finish well clear of Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel.

While Red Bull is well aware of the power deficit it has to its rivals, Verstappen is now convinced that on the chassis front the team is ahead.

"Of course we hope that next year with a new engine supplier it will continue in the right direction.
"We already have the right people on board, but the whole package is not yet right. That will also be difficult next year, but I hope we will have a real chance the following year."

Red Bull is under no illusions that future engine partner Honda still has room to improve, but Verstappen thinks that the Japanese company's ambition will drive it forward to deliver what is required.
Asked why he had trust in Honda, Verstappen said: "First of all because of the budget they have, which is many times bigger than that of our current engine supplier.

"Furthermore, they just go in the right direction, also in terms of test bench results. Moreover, they really, really want to win.

"When a man holds you round the throat, I don't think he has come to apologise" 
Ayrton Senna on Nigel Mansell, SPA 1987.   Angel
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