Red Bull choose Honda
#11

Antilochos I really do believe RBR have been waiting to see where the various engines developed and how. So far Honda have been out developing Renault. I think Red Bull tied Verstappen down to the contract because they genuinely believe they have the next Schumacher on their hands. Max apparently took a lot of convincing to stay, and the most convincing argument was apparently his paycheck. Rumours are he's better paid than both Hamilton and Vettel, which I happen to think is madness. If their is an engine development freeze in 2019 RBR could have egg on their faces, if however there isn't I actually expect Honda to get right on the tail of Ferrari and Mercedes. Engine note analysis at Canada suggested they weren't too far down on Ferrari and Mercedes and certainly in qualifying mode ahead of Renault. They keep that sort of development pace up throughout the season and they'll certainly be ahead of Renault.
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#12

(20-06-2018, 11:02 AM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Antilochos I really do believe RBR have been waiting to see where the various engines developed and how. So far Honda have been out developing Renault. I think Red Bull tied Verstappen down to the contract because they genuinely believe they have the next Schumacher on their hands. Max apparently took a lot of convincing to stay, and the most convincing argument was apparently his paycheck. Rumours are he's better paid than both Hamilton and Vettel, which I happen to think is madness. If their is an engine development freeze in 2019 RBR could have egg on their faces, if however there isn't I actually expect Honda to get right on the tail of Ferrari and Mercedes. Engine note analysis at Canada suggested they weren't too far down on Ferrari and Mercedes and certainly in qualifying mode ahead of Renault. They keep that sort of development pace up throughout the season and they'll certainly be ahead of Renault.

Jody, I do think the engineering part is playing a big part in the decision making and sure Red Bull wants as much as info and therefor as long as possible to make a decision (and burn a bridge behind them). 
But, never underestimate the power of money. Paying millions to use Renault or receive millions to use Honda (sorry, to lazy to check the precise amounts, but it's substantial) does a lot! 
Going half a year, maybe more back in time. Red Bull already knew that with Renault there was very few progress towards a championship. Honda is a gamble, but the figures looks promising and in the worst case, they keep being third team on the grid.
Then you have that Verstappen, a driver that is the next hot star in media and maybe even another Vettel or even Schumacher in talent. Looks like the Verstappen camp played it smart. Vettel was going nowhere and Hamilton seemed like staying at Mercedes for another couple of years. Hard to believe both teams wanted Verstappen next to their prime drivers (or those drivers wanted Verstappen next to them - think not -, no matter what they said in media). Still a lot of rumors of talks between Verstappen camp and Mercedes and Ferrari. Red Bull felt pressure and signed a deal with the young driver (who looked like to be in a situation Ricciardo is in as well, only the former noticed it earlier). Verstappen took a huge leap in salary it seems (rumors, but think there will be some truth in them) ánd signed the best seat he could get for the time. Maybe after that period there is a seat waiting at one of the other top teams (would not supprise me). Red Bull signed to keep this star and gave a huge salary, knowing that there is a lot of financial space in the future available with the engine deal.

Again, I know nothing and just speculate, but the world runs on money.
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#13

Antilochos I'm sure money had something to do with the decision. Rumours are that Honda were funding McLaren with up to €150m per season and free engines. So given Red Bulls funding level is at or around Ferrari's and Mercedes funding levels, an extra cash boost would be welcome. However, given their finances are so strong, I also don't think they needed the money, so I think this is mostly an engineering decision. Rumours are it was the Red Bull technology group that pushed for the Honda engine, so that sounds like an engineering decision to me.
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#14

I tell you what i saw a quote saying RBR respectful and Honda in that quote if they dont deliver a race winning engine i see RBR throwing a whopping teddy bear . i found RBR and respectful in same line hugely amusing
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#15

(21-06-2018, 05:57 PM)LotusLover Wrote:  I tell you what i saw a quote saying RBR respectful and Honda in that quote if they dont deliver a race winning engine i see RBR throwing a whopping teddy bear . i found RBR and respectful in same line hugely amusing

You weren't the only one who found it funny, I nearly spat my tea out when I read that. Completely agree, if Red Bull have issues with Honda the relationship will sour quickly, which is why I think Honda have been super brave. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out, but if Red Bull win races and get podiums with Honda power, then there will be serious egg over many faces at McLaren, and if the rumours of Alonso to Penske turn out to be true the humiliation for Alonso would be complete.
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#16

Max Verstappen says having a Honda engine "purely designed around your car" will be a big benefit to his Red Bull Formula 1 team.
Red Bull announced earlier this week it would be ending a long-standing association with Renault to instead use Honda engines in 2019 and 2020.
The Japanese manufacturer toiled as McLaren's power unit supplier in the three years prior, but has progressed enough since switching to Red Bull's B-team Toro Rosso to convince the Austrian drinks giant that it was ready to provide engines for the main outfit.
“I believe in it, and the team clearly believes in it because they signed the deal,” said Verstappen, who is signed with Red Bull through to the end of 2020.
“It's exciting as well. You have Honda basically working for Red Bull and Toro Rosso only, so it's purely designed around your car. I think that also is very good.
“I spoke with them [Red Bull’s management] for a long time about what I thought of it.
"Of course I knew this already earlier than you guys. They always kept me quite close because I like to understand what's going to happen with the team in the future.”
Verstappen, whose father Jos was part of an aborted works Honda F1 project in the late nineties, made an encouraging visit to the Japanese manufacturer’s facility last year.

He said: “The facility looked very nice. It was good to have a walk around and see the differences between Honda and Renault's factories. It was quite impressive how they've built up all the facilities and the dynos and stuff. It all looked very efficient.”

Verstappen's teammate Daniel Ricciardo, whose Red Bull Racing deal expires at the end of this year, admits he isn't sure whether it'll be Honda or Renault that catches up with F1's leading engine manufacturers sooner.
He said: “Obviously Renault's come a pretty long way this year. I know we still don't have the qualifying modes, but our race pace, once we're all fuel saving, all that, we seem a lot more competitive.
"So they're improving, as you can see Honda seems to be improving with Toro Rosso.
“I think it's fair to say they're both on the up - it's just who's going to get there quicker, that's still the unknown.
"Obviously Red Bull believe that Honda are the right ones.”

"You live more for 5 minutes going fast on a bike than other people do in all of their life"....Marco Simoncelli
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#17

Yeah... it's interesting, because Verstappen is sounding on message with Honda, but Ricciardo is sounding less than impressed.
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#18

(22-06-2018, 12:02 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Yeah... it's interesting, because Verstappen is sounding on message with Honda, but Ricciardo is sounding less than impressed.

Doesnt come across as Danny jumping up and down with excitement lol

"You live more for 5 minutes going fast on a bike than other people do in all of their life"....Marco Simoncelli
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#19

(22-06-2018, 12:10 PM)forzaferrari Wrote:  
(22-06-2018, 12:02 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Yeah... it's interesting, because Verstappen is sounding on message with Honda, but Ricciardo is sounding less than impressed.

Doesnt come across as Danny jumping up and down with excitement lol

I tell you what though, if Danny Ric takes a look at the speed trap figures again he'll see that the Honda engine is yet again consistently better than the Renault engined cars, like all of them, for two weekends in a row, and it didn't do too bad elsewhere either. Honda are definitely out developing Renault. By the end of the season and the start of 2019 I'm willing to bet they'll be better than Renault.
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#20

Helmut Marko: If Honda fails, Red Bull will leave F1...

Red Bull chief Helmut Marko has sensationally suggested that Red Bull could opt to leave Formula One altogether if their new relationship with Honda does not result in race wins and championship wins, having recently decided to ditch Renault in favour of the Japanese engine manufacturer.
Although they are considered a 'big three' team alongside Ferrari and Mercedes, Red Bull have not competed for a championship since the days of Sebastian Vettel's dominance.
Before the summer break, the team announced that they would be ending their partnership with Renault, with Honda set to provide engines from the 2019 campaign onwards.

Marko's words suggest it could be the last throw of the dice for Red Bull, as if the Honda relationship doesn't work out, they could leave F1.
Honda have witnessed their reputation being damaged over the past few years due to their connection with McLaren's troubles on the track. They came close to leaving F1 without a team to provide power units to, but Marko claims they convinced them to carry on as Red Bull's engine manufacturers.

"The cooperation with Honda has been running very well with Toro Rosso so far, " Marko continued in reference to Red Bull's junior outfit.

"After the McLaren disaster, Honda was close to a departure from Formula 1 at the end of 2017 and we really had to convince the Japanese in intensive conversations that they could resume with us to start."

"You live more for 5 minutes going fast on a bike than other people do in all of their life"....Marco Simoncelli
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