[LotusLover]

It is sad and obviously has gone out of control, but do you not sympathise when a team be it works or not cannot maintain a team financially to then rely on a leading competitor to effectively take over and run them as a B team (if that is what they would be), for the other teams who are also having to be self maintaining to complain? I know we want more teams but on merit not financially supported by a bigger team, it adds controversy and makes a mockery of entering F1. I do agree that its becoming too expensive to maintain a car in this hybrid era, but its like if you go into business without a sound infrastructure you expect to get your fingers burnt or even worse lose your equity!!!

[Jody Barton]

It is sad and obviously has gone out of control, but do you not sympathise when a team be it works or not cannot maintain a team financially to then rely on a leading competitor to effectively take over and run them as a B team (if that is what they would be), for the other teams who are also having to be self maintaining to complain?  I know we want more teams but on merit not financially supported by a bigger team, it adds controversy and makes a mockery of entering F1. I do agree that its becoming too expensive to maintain a car in this hybrid era, but its like if you go into business without a sound infrastructure you expect to get your fingers burnt or even worse lose your equity!!!

LL I actually fully understand where McLaren and Williams are coming from. Not so much Renault if I'm honest. Especially given the vast sums Renault sport are pumping into the team and by 2020 their budget will be in or around the likes of Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari. They're currently spending £250m a season, and that will rise by an extra £50m per season according to Renault Sports boss Jérôme Stoll. They are themselves a manufacturer, who seemingly is willing to throw dosh at this. Williams and McLaren? Yeah, I get it. but both teams have significantly more budget than FI have ever had. FI were bankrolled by VJ, and as his cash has now totally been freezed, the team is in a perilous condition. It's not like they've been spending above their budget. Apparently they only owe Mercedes for Perez' engines, and Perez for his wages. OK. So that's a lot of money, rumoured to be £18, but give them a break for the sake of the sport and indeed the people who work there, whose jobs and livelihoods are on the line. I just think, looking back at when Williams were in the cack a few years back, how EVERYONE literally allowed them to enter the season with zero cashflow and Mercedes let them have their super duper all conquering engines on the back of an I.O.U. it's just a tad hypocritical of them. I know why they're doing it, because they know neither of them will beat a cash starved team, with no money, who haven't added anything new to their car for 3 races, and probably won't for the rest of the season at this rate. Soooo... while I get what they're saying, I don't think it's an accurate representation of why they're doing it.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

LL I actually fully understand where McLaren and Williams are coming from. Not so much Renault if I'm honest. Especially given the vast sums Renault sport are pumping into the team and by 2020 their budget will be in or around the likes of Red Bull . . .

I get what you're saying Jody, and it could be a bit of bias, on my part, again, far from the most knowledgeable.

But my understanding, of Renault's position, is that their increased investment year on year, would be down to results, by the Enstone factory, and a lot of their investment, up to know has been related to infrastructure at the Enstone premises.

Think it was Cyril, last year, who said, finishing 4th, this year, was part of their long term plan, and if achieved, would unlock the further investment required from Renault, in order to make a conservative, title challenge, in 2020.

RBR, have proved they can win with the engine. Not to get dragged into the whole Engine, thing, I have much sympathy for RBR, yes the "product" is not up to Merc / SF levels (Yet).

My main issue, is all this massive "gardening leave"shite, which is stifling things. I believe that was Merc started that. Old news, but relevant.

As for Force India, much love for them, and I certainly hope they don't get turned into a "B" spec team. But seems to be the way at the minute. I think the kickback, has been a bit of a power play, i.e. Williams, McL, Renault - responding to other things done by Merc and SF

The strategy group, and now, the concorde agreement holders, have both, once again, been seen to act, not in the interest of the sport, but their own self interest. Hey, it's the corporate world - something I've resected Horner, for pointing out in the past.

Still, chin, nice to see LM, lobbying on FI's part - bring back, Max Mosley, he knew how to knock heads together, lol

[morini]

bring back, Max Mosley, he knew how to wear leather and take an arse whipping

[Foghorn Leghorn]

It started life as an Audi RS5 (sporty A5) then Abt tuning got their hands on it and done their `thing` (530bhp)

bring back, Max Mosley, he knew how to wear leather and take an arse whipping

Hey - it was a set up, didn't know who'd bite first - probably Max, hahaha

[NeilP]

" OK. So that's a lot of money, rumoured to be £18, but give them a break for the sake of the sport and indeed the people who work there, whose jobs and livelihoods are on the line."

Well there are quite a few of us on here I am damn we sure could raise £18 between us but the idea we could ever agree on the name of the new team is of course stark raving bonkers!!!

[Jody Barton]

lol NeilP I obviously meant £18m, but about Banter Force?

[NeilP]

More Like Bantha Fodder!!!

[morini]

lol NeilP I obviously meant £18m, but about Banter Force?

No, no, I'm sure he meant 18 quid.

Hey, Sergio, heres your £3, the F1B community have just bought FI for two pints and a G&T.

I'm sure we could make a go of it lads!

[NeilP]

Okay I am going to hang myself out to dry with what I am about to say...

Its all very well not wanting Mercedes to take over Force India but that ignores a well established business practice. When a company owes as much money to a supplier as Force India does it often happens that the supplier will take a serious look at recovering some or all of the debt by taking over the debtor. Mercedes are owed allegedly 18 million pounds. Should they just expect to wipe that away if nobody comes forward to take over the team? Furthermore should they just be expected to continue to supply the team even if a new buyer comes in and pays the debt. If I was Mercedes I would want some concrete deal in place that ensured I would be paid for my supplies.

Then is it not hypercritical (trust me Ferrari fans I am NOT picking on your team)? Both Haas and Sauber are all but Ferrari teams. Sauber are badged as Alfa Romeo a Fiat owned company who also own Ferrari. They also got their driver Leclerc in to the team. Haas whilst not as yet having a Ferrari sponsored driver in their car (but it is rumoured there could be next year) use pretty much all Ferrari supplied parts not just the engine. Is that not exerting your considerable influence? Is that not tantamount to a B and indeed C team?

Yes Force India have a Mercedes driver in Ocon (who if the rumours are to be believed will not be there next year) but other than that no influence other than as a supplier. Long winded way of saying why is okay for Ferrari but not Mercedes?

I am in agreement with most saying we want as many independent teams as possible. AGAIN we go back to the crux of the matter the lower teams are not getting a fair share of the reward of being in Formula 1. Never mind looking at new races and old contracts sort out the finance Liberty make these smaller teams viable. These small teams are all about survival rather than challenging for titles. Take 100 Million off Ferrari and Mercedes and spread it among the other teams otherwise there is a grave danger of Formula 1 simply being Ferrari A, Ferrari B Ferrari C, Mercedes A, Mercedes B and Mercedes C with Foggys Renault and maybe a Honda purchased team (Toro Rosso) with maybe Red Bull hanging on. I really fear for the financial future of Williams and I am not that convinced McLaren can continue this massive downward trend of income.