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RP20 Vs W10 - Jody Barton - 19-02-2020

Look, I get what Haas have done with Ferrari, and to a lesser extent what Toro Rosso (now Beta Centauri) have done with RBR... but... do we think Racing Point have gone too far in buying last year's Mercedes and painting it pink? Seriously looking at comparison pictures it's bad, like, really bad. Even the barge board areas are the same, as are the bloody wheel hub / break assemblies.

https://amp.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/f6gisj/racing_point_rp20_vs_mercedes_w10_front_brake/

There's loads more where that came from.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - forzaferrari - 19-02-2020

And the irony of it all..... RP was the ones who stamped their feet the loudest about the Alfa/Ferrari similarities.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - Jody Barton - 19-02-2020

Yeah, I know Forza, it's one of the reasons I bring it up. The bitching they did last season over both the Alfa Romeo and Haas cars was very public and very vocal, and this year they're literally driving around in a secondhand Mercedes W10. It's awful, seriously it's the same god damn car with just a different engine cover because the Merc PU is smaller this year due to better cooling and batteries. Honestly? For me this has gone too far.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - Monster Hesh - 20-02-2020

Snafafanazzer is it? at RP, said in a sky pit interview today, that they did not buy, they merely just copied. They probably had enough photos from the year to create a photometric model. Sure thats only skin deep, but RP designers aint sloppy (as we've seen in previous years) so could've reverse engineer it. He said, as have alot, that buying or obtaining designs (or something along those lines) is completely against they rules.

It it too far, perhaps, but why not if they can do it in a legal sense.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - morini - 20-02-2020

(19-02-2020, 11:22 PM)forzaferrari Wrote:  And the irony of it all..... RP was the ones who stamped their feet the loudest about the Alfa/Ferrari similarities.

The key difference for me is the Ferrari / Alfa and RBR / Torro Rosso (or whatever TF they call themselves this year) are 100% A/B team set ups. Racing Point as far as I am aware is an independent team.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - Jody Barton - 21-02-2020

Adding a level of intrigue into the B-team cars... Hearing an interesting take here in Sweden from a sports accountant (that's apparently a thing) and he used to work for Sauber. He thinks these copycat cars might be here to stay... Why? Offsetting costs. In accountancy terms teams might be able to claim R&D spend from lower teams. Front wing costs £4.5m to develop? Sell it next year to Haas and Alfa Romeo and split the R&D costs so £1.25m each to the customers and £2m cost to the lead investment partner. Apparently this is how many European teams get around Financial Fair Play rules by having B-teams in lower leagues. What do we think?


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - NeilP - 25-02-2020

(21-02-2020, 07:21 PM)Jody Barton Wrote:  Adding a level of intrigue into the B-team cars... Hearing an interesting take here in Sweden from a sports accountant (that's apparently a thing) and he used to work for Sauber. He thinks these copycat cars might be here to stay... Why? Offsetting costs. In accountancy terms teams might be able to claim R&D spend from lower teams. Front wing costs £4.5m to develop? Sell it next year to Haas and Alfa Romeo and split the R&D costs so £1.25m each to the customers and £2m cost to the lead investment partner. Apparently this is how many European teams get around Financial Fair Play rules by having B-teams in lower leagues. What do we think?

Makes perfect sense to me. You just know the bigger teams especially are going to find loopholes to circumvent the rules I do not care if you are a Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull fan your team will be doing it.

The field of accountancy is literally a minefield of misinformation and creativity. I once worked for a quite large company in the UK and my boss always used to tell me he could make the same set of accounts look like the company was booming or about to go bust. Sure he was exaggerating to prove a point but it is something I have always remembered.

If teams can employ sophisticated engineers and genius computer software designers I am damn certain they can find creative accountants to employ too.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - Jody Barton - 25-02-2020

I agree NeilP, if Mercedes can attract fluid dynamics professors from MIT and aerodynamicists from Lockheed Martin, then why the hell can they not attract accountants from KPMG? It was just an interesting debate for me, and something I hadn't considered.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - forzaferrari - 17-07-2020

Been playing catch up as I didnt watch any f1 today, read this on motorsport.com

The FIA has revealed that it did not inspect Racing Point's contentious brake ducts when it conducted an investigation into the RP20 before the original season-opening race in Australia.
After the car first appeared in Barcelona testing its overall similarity to last year's Mercedes W10 was noted by rivals, who raised their suspicions of illicit sharing of IP with the FIA.

The FIA's head of single seater technical matters Nikolas Tombazis subsequently visited Racing Point's factory, where the team showed him evidence of how it had used photographs to "reverse engineer" the general aerodynamic concept of the Mercedes, a process that is legal when replicating listed parts.

After the Styrian GP, Renault protested the front and rear brake ducts on the Racing Point cars, in essence arguing that information shared in 2019 – when brake ducts were not listed parts – has been used on the 2020 car.

Racing Point has consistently argued that the FIA inspected the car and passed it legal.

However, FIA technical boss Nikolas Tombazis admitted that while the FIA approved the car in general, it didn't look specifically at the brake ducts that have now become the focus of Renault's protest.


RE: RP20 Vs W10 - morini - 17-07-2020

(17-07-2020, 06:40 PM)forzaferrari Wrote:  Racing Point has consistently argued that the FIA inspected the car and passed it legal.

However, FIA technical boss Nikolas Tombazis admitted that while the FIA approved the car in general, it didn't look specifically at the brake ducts that have now become the focus of Renault's protest.

I watched the P sessions today where this was discussed ad nauseum to the point I was bored shitless (particularly in P2 as they had a lot of filling to do). The thing is, the photo's they showed are a bit laughable as they show the RP brake ducts just aren't the same as last years Merc. The commentators were trying to deflect saying how "similar" they looked, but look at the pictures and make your own mids up! For this to be an actual rule breaking problem they would need to be *identical*. Everyone can clearly see the shape is broadly the same but the details inside the duct are very obviously not the same. They only need to differ slightly to give credence to the argument that RP simply "copied" a very good design from photos. All the teams are doing it and they all have "B teams", so just give us all a break and let it go. FFS. This all pisses me off big time as it makes F1 look like it's being run by a bunch of complete fuckwits. Err..., oh sorry, as you were then!

Put up or shut up Renault. Just do a better job you annoying, whinging, unsporting pricks.

If there's one thing which pushes my buttons it's moaning. Every team in F1 is free to copy other teams if they are doing a better job.


<there, I've said my piece>